Rejection Of Right To Die Case 'Important'

Right To Die

First Posted: 28/09/11 11:43 BST Updated: 28/11/11 10:12 GMT

PA -- A High Court judge has ruled that a brain-damaged, minimally conscious woman should not be allowed to die in a decision described as "very important" by lawyers.

Mr Justice Baker said an English court had never before been asked to consider whether life-supporting treatment should be withdrawn from a patient who was not in a persistent vegetative state but was minimally conscious.

The judge, who heard legal argument during a Court of Protection hearing in London in July, had described the case as unique and said it raised "very important issues of principle".

Relatives wanted life-supporting treatment withdrawn and said the woman, who turned 52 earlier this month and lives in a care home in the north of England, would not want to live "a life dependent on others".

But a lawyer appointed by the High Court to represent the woman, referred to as M in court, opposed the relatives' application for nutrition to be withdrawn, arguing that she was "otherwise clinically stable".

The local health authority responsible for commissioning her care also opposed the relatives' application and said the woman's life was "not without positive elements".

Mr Justice Baker said: "The factor which does carry substantial weight, in my judgment, is the preservation of life."

He added: "I find that she does have some positive experiences and importantly that there is a reasonable prospect that those experiences can be extended by a planned programme of increased stimulation." The judge said all parties agreed that an existing "do not resuscitate" order should continue.

Lawyer Yogi Amin, a partner with law firm Irwin Mitchell, which represented M's family, said after the hearing: "The family learned of the judge's decision yesterday and were deeply disappointed." He said the family's lawyers were considering an appeal.

He added: "This is a very important judgment. The law has been clarified and, going forward, in all such cases of patients who are in a minimally conscious state, the High Court does now have the power to decide on whether it is in that patient's best interests for treatment to continue, or whether the patient should be allowed to die naturally, with dignity."

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PA -- A High Court judge has ruled that a brain-damaged, minimally conscious woman should not be allowed to die in a decision described as "very important" by lawyers. Mr J...
PA -- A High Court judge has ruled that a brain-damaged, minimally conscious woman should not be allowed to die in a decision described as "very important" by lawyers. Mr J...
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
sskepticall
12:10 PM on 09/29/2011
I have as much right to make the comment as you do. I've seen people die of lung cancer. They were so drugged up to control the pain that they didn't feel anything. The use of medications can speed death because nourishment doesn't happen anymore.

Shame on you for not realizing that this family had the same right to determine this poor womans outcome. That is the point. You got to choose over another family members wishes and this family asked to be allowed to provide an outcome that they say this woman would have wanted. The system allows for these outcomes. Thank God.

Here is a thought - what if the courts had decided that your brother was right? Would you have liked the courts to interfere in this family matter that you were able to resolve with your brother? Who was right in that decision? You chose death for your mother because you believed she wouldn't want her life unnecessarily exteneded through artificial means. In fact removing treatment speeds death for this woman. She has zero quality of life. You should have the right to make that call - and so should this family - independent of either your or my opinions. That is where the gall came from.
06:23 PM on 09/29/2011
Right I'm going to be very objective here and take the pity part out and the emotion out. The family say the woman wouldn't want to live like this. Fine then why didn't they ask to withdraw her feeding 8 years ago when it became clear she was minimally aware and there was little chance of her regaining her former faculties.

From what I have read there has been no real change in her condition and she is clinically stable. The only thing that has changed is 8 years have passed.

As much as I understand her family are continuing to suffer, and I accept that they are and are having a hard time watching someone they love in this situation and maybe the woman didn't want to be locked in like this the argument that this family are just doing what this woman wants to me isn't the case or they would have complied with her wishes when she first became minimally aware and not 8 years later when they lose hope or are suddenly decide now is the time to comply with the woman's wishes.

You can't have it both ways - we ignore what she wants for 8 years and now we decide to do as she would have wanted.
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sskepticall
03:39 AM on 09/30/2011
Having watched a loved one suffer for over 7 years with a debilitating illness that was irreversible and would lead to a certain death I can tell you that through many periods and phases you hold out hope that something might change. Understanding medical situations and all of the implications is very hard. KNOWING what to do for sure can be elusive.

Just because they waited till now, that somehow means that they are lying (cause that is what you are inferring) that she wouldn't want to live like this? More likely they were working through a huge number of emotions and sometimes you have to wait till everyone is on the same page - not in an argument but waiting so that there is a consensus in this very difficult agreement.

When things don't change you begin to face facts of the situation and the silenced voice actually gets paid attention to. My family member was so terribly ill that the last 6 months was horrendous; they didn’t know they were on the planet earth. It was cruel to not authorize a DNR order but in order to maintain the family unit no one interfered with that until the last 1/2 hour of my family member’s life. Upon reflection we all now know - we weren't honoring my family member’s wishes - though we should have. Trust me - it all happens at different times for different families when to honor someone's wishes. It isn't a cookie cutter scripted
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
sskepticall
03:10 AM on 09/29/2011
Not surprising to me that all the people on this post saying the "right" decision was made by the "lifer" judge are men.

Women are nothing to these men. Women are their property and these men opinions are superior to a woman's right to decide what she should do with her body or her life.

They are misogynists. Control, Control, Control of the one thing they will never have. It is not about life being sacred. They don't know what that actually means.
02:13 AM on 09/29/2011
A person should have the right to decide when to die.
10:02 PM on 09/28/2011
Does it make you Moral Crusaders feel better that her life of nothingness and maybe misery be preserved or do you secretly doubt the existence of God and Heaven and attend church to hedge your bets and feel less insignificant? Maybe both. And why are we still starving people to death?
10:01 PM on 09/28/2011
Every human being, probably every living creature, on this planet, needs food and water to survive. Withdrawing food isn't the same as withdrawing medical treatment, it's deliberately starving someone to death. I'm sympathetic – I had to make a decision for my mother – but I think the judge has made the right decision here. I just wish he'd made the distinction between medical treatment and the fundamental need for food, that no living thing can survive without.
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sskepticall
03:21 AM on 09/29/2011
You did it for your mother - but another family doesn't get to make the same decision?

You got to make that decision for what you were actually facing but you don't believe this family gets to make the same decision?

Now that is gall. Heartless gall.
04:59 AM on 09/29/2011
You have no right to assume what you've assumed and to make such comments. Nothing I said allows you to infer that. My mother was dying of a cancer typical of those caused by longterm smoking, with a well known pathology and predictable outcome. She was 'offered' a place in a trial of a very experimental drug which my brother wanted us to accept on her behalf – she wasn't capable of making a lucid decision. I wasn't going to let her be used as a guinea pig; there was no question of nourishment being withdrawn; her doctors never suggested it and I wouldn't have allowed it. The decision I made was that all her meds except palliative treatment were to be withdrawn, and she died peacefully.

Shame on you.
09:04 PM on 09/28/2011
The woman was not denied the right to die - it isn't her asking!!! It is her family and it isn't like she is recieving major medical intervention to stay alive she is clinically stable.

If she had an advanced directive then fine, but it isn't it is other people. As hard as it is for her family the judge here is right.

And for those that say the judge is wrong god save us all from well meaning strangers who pity people.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
sskepticall
02:22 AM on 09/29/2011
God save us from strangers who speak from the view of their laptops who have no pity for this family and this woman. Who just don't have to sit and watch her suffering (read the stories - there is suffering). The family loves this woman. They are the only ones who can speak for her. Clincally stable? - that isn't the issue - it isn't her body that is unstable - she is in a semi-conscious state. The judge is a "lifer" so all life needs to be preserved. He said it in court.

So he was deaf to what was presented - it was what HE wanted - what He believed. Time to find a judge who will actually listen and I am very glad the family is appealing the case.

Abstract thinking in the face of reality takes no courage - would he want to be in that state for the rest of his life. Does anyone??? Would you?

Let her enter Heaven. God tried to call her home - medical science prevented that departure and sometimes that just isn't progress.
04:16 AM on 09/29/2011
Okay take a chill pill for a minute the judge's gender has nowt to do with this.

What does though is that she is concious, not a vegitative stat. She has responses and even though I feel for her family, I do, starving someone in that state when they have any awareness even minimal is an ending you wouldn't wish on your worse enemy.

If she had expressly left instructions about the state she didn't want to live in prior to her illness then fine, I'd be for her food and water being withdrawn but she didn't and that really is the crux of the matter for me.

A brain damaged person in that state can't be refused the 'right' to die, a person who left no explicit instruction (and her family saying she wouldn't want this but she never said it straight out doesn't count for me) who becomes brain damaged and who isn't being kept alive medically isn't the person who is asking anything. Which means this isn't about personal choice it is about someone else deciding what is the quality of your existance.

She has a DNR in place - she will not be rescuitated if it come to that point but the thing that swung the judge was that she is aware and the medical experts think that with increased stimuali this can increase,

As for pity - yes save all of us from mock pity and mock outrage too.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
onwisconsin
Trust women; protect choice.
06:28 PM on 09/28/2011
This is the reason all people should file advanced directives and grant medical power of attorney to a trusted individual who will follow that directive.
01:17 PM on 09/28/2011
ARE YOU SERIOUS?

''Right to die'' implies informed consent by conscious, informed person!

The issue here is the ''right to kill.''
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
dnno1
wiseguy
01:43 PM on 09/28/2011
That's right. It's sounding like she didn't have an advance directive before she got in this condition.
ThinkCreeps
Seriously, it's time.
04:49 PM on 09/28/2011
If you say so.

Interpreting the will of the victim is the important thing, rather than scratching our heads to wonder what's going on in yours.
10:58 PM on 09/28/2011
''Interpreting the will'' in order to kill them. Calling it a ''right to die'' situation is ridiculous. Call it what it is. The right to kill.

And what's with the throw away insult? What is that about? What is wrong with you?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Lawyer13
retired Lawyer, General and Psychiatric Nurse, wit
12:26 PM on 09/28/2011
I understand that the Judge reached his decision on the basis that the woman has some awareness to stimuli
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Steve Lane
12:00 PM on 09/28/2011
What a peculiar headline. How about "Brain damaged woman has her right to life confirmed" ?
ThinkCreeps
Seriously, it's time.
12:22 PM on 09/28/2011
Because that would not reflect the facts of the case begin described.

The woman's family sought to end her life, reflecting their knowledge of her wishes, which unfortunately, appear not to have been written down. The court refused, thereby denying her right to die.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Kevin Mcilroy
12:52 PM on 09/28/2011
How do the family know what she wants? At some point she may have expressed a wish not to live in such a state but she may feel differently now and is not in a position to express her wishes so the court is correct in refusing to sanction killing her.