Lovesick Man Sends Woman 1,615 Word Email After First Date

What Not To Do To Get A Second Date

The Huffington Post UK   First Posted: 14/12/11 11:42 GMT Updated: 14/12/11 11:48 GMT

If there were ever a lesson on what not to do after a first date, this would be it…

A dejected man from New York sent his object of affection a 1,615 word email after she consistently ignored his calls following their first date.

Now the long-winded email from the lovesick investment banker named Mike (later posted online by the angry woman) has gone viral and we think it’s fair to say that he didn’t secure a second date.

After the woman, named Lauren, described their one and only date as a ‘horrific’, she probably thought it would be the last she saw of Mike. However, after failing to reach her on the phone, eager dater Mike found Lauren’s email address on Google and proceeded to write her the lengthy online letter asking why she wasn't that into him.

Lauren was accused of leading Mike on by, ‘playing with her hair – a lot’, and, ‘making eye contact’, plus leaving the date with a polite, ‘it was nice to meet you’.

All signs that she wanted to see him again, right? RIGHT?

Take a look at Mike’s email in full and decide for yourself:


Hi Lauren,

I’m disappointed in you. I’m disappointed that I haven’t gotten a response to my voicemail and text messages.

FYI, I suggest that you keep in mind that emails sound more impersonal, harsher, and are easier to misinterpret than in-person or phone communication. After all, people can’t see someone’s body language or tone of voice in an email. I’m not trying to be harsh, patronizing, or insulting in this email. I’m honest and direct by nature, and I’m going to be that way in this email. By the way, I did a Google search, so that’s how I came across your email.

I assume that you no longer want to go out with me. (If you do want to go out with me, then you should let me know.) I suggest that you make a sincere apology to me for giving me mixed signals. I feel led on by you.

Things that happened during our date include, but are not limited to, the following:

- You played with your hair a lot. A woman playing with her hair is a common sign of flirtation. You can even do a Google search on it. When a woman plays with her hair, she is preening. I’ve never had a date where a woman played with her hair as much as you did. In addition, it didn’t look like you were playing with your hair out of nervousness.

- We had lots of eye contact during our date. On a per-minute basis, I’ve never had as much eye contact during a date as I did with you.

- You said, 'It was nice to meet you' at the end of our date. A woman could say this statement as a way to show that she isn’t interested in seeing a man again or she could mean what she said–that it was nice to meet you. The statement, by itself, is inconclusive.

- We had a nice conversation over dinner. I don’t think I’m being delusional in saying this statement.

In my opinion, leading someone on (i.e., giving mixed signals) is impolite and immature. It’s bad to do that.

Normally, I would not be asking for information if a woman and I don’t go out again after a first date. However, in our case, I’m curious because I think our date went well and that there is a lot of potential for a serious relationship. Of course, it’s difficult to predict what would happen, but I think there is a lot of potential for a serious relationship developing between us one day (or least there was before your non-response to my voicemail and text messages).

I think we should go out on a second date. In my opinion, our first date was good enough to lead to a second date.

Why am I writing you? Well, hopefully, we will go out again. Even if we don’t, I gain utility from expressing my thoughts to you. In addition, even if you don’t want to go out again, I would like to get feedback as to why you wouldn’t want to go again. Normally, I wouldn’t ask a woman for this type of feedback after a first date, but this is an exception given I think we have a lot of potential.

If you don’t want to go again, then apparently you didn’t think our first date was good enough to lead to a second date. Dating or a relationship is not a Hollywood movie. It’s good to keep that in mind. In general, I thought the date went well and was expecting that we would go out on a second date.

If you’re not interested in going out again, then I would have preferred if you hadn’t given those mixed signals. I feel led on. We have a number of things in common. I’ll name a few things: First, we’ve both very intelligent. Second, we both like classical music so much that we go to classical music performances by ourselves. In fact, the number one interest that I would want to have in common with a woman with whom I’m in a relationship is a liking of classical music.

I wouldn’t be seriously involved with a woman if she didn’t like classical music. You said that you’re planning to go the NY Philharmonic more often in the future. As I said, I go to the NY Philharmonic often. You’re very busy. It would be very convenient for you to date me because we have the same interests. We already go to classical music performances by ourselves. If we go to classical music performances together, it wouldn’t take any significant additional time on your part.

According to the internet, you’re 33 or 32, so, at least from my point of view, we’re a good match in terms of age. I could name more things that we have in common, but I’ll stop here. I don’t understand why you apparently don’t want to go out with me again. We have numerous things in common. I assume that you find me physically attractive. If you didn’t find me physically attractive, then it would have been irrational for you to go out with me in the first place. After all, our first date was not a blind date.

You already knew what I looked like before our date. Perhaps, you’re unimpressed that I manage my family’s investments and my own investments. Perhaps, you don’t think I have a 'real' job. Well, I’ve done very well as an investment manager. I’ve made my parents several millions of dollars. That’s real money. That’s not monopoly money. In my opinion, if I make real money, it’s a real job. Donald Trump’s children work for his company. Do they have 'real' jobs? I think so. George Soros’ sons help manage their family investments. Do they have 'real' jobs? I think so.

In addition, I’m both a right-brain and left-brain man, given that I’m both an investment manager and a philosopher/writer. That’s a unique characteristic; most people aren’t like that. I’ve never been as disappointed and sad about having difficulty about getting a second date as I am with you. I’ve gone out with a lot of women in my life. (FYI, I’m not a serial dater. Sometimes, I’ve only gone out with a woman for one date.) People don’t grow on trees. I hope you appreciate the potential we have.

Am I sensitive person? Sure, I am. I think it’s better to be sensitive than to be insensitive. There are too many impolite, insensitive people in the world.

I suggest that we continue to go out and see what happens. Needless to say, I find you less appealing now (given that you haven’t returned my messages) than I did at our first date. However, I would be willing to go out with you again. I’m open minded and flexible and am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. I wish you would give me the benefit of the doubt too.

If you don’t want to go out again, in my opinion, you would be making a big mistake, perhaps one of the biggest mistakes in your life. If you don’t want to go out again, then you should have called to tell me so. Even sending a text message would have been better than nothing. In my opinion, not responding to my messages is impolite, immature, passive aggressive, and cowardly. I spent time, effort, and money meeting you for dinner. Getting back to me in response to my messages would have been a reasonable thing for you to do. In addition, you arrived about 30 minutes late for our date. I’m sure you wouldn’t like it if a man showed up thirty minutes late for a first date with you.

If you’re concerned that you will hurt my feelings by providing specific information about why you don’t want to go with me again, well, my feelings are already hurt. I’m sad and disappointed about this situation. If you give information, at least I can understand the situation better. I might even learn something that is beneficial.

If you don’t want to go out again, that I request that you call me and make a sincere apology for leading me on (i.e., giving me mixed signals). In my opinion, you shouldn’t act that way toward a man and then not go out with him again. It’s bad to play with your hair so much and make so much eye contact if you’re not interested in going out with me again. I have tried to write this email well, but it’s not perfect. Again, I’m not trying to be harsh, insulting, patronizing, etc. I’m disappointed, sad, etc.

I would like to talk to you on the phone. I hope you will call me back at xxx-xxx-xxxx (if it’s inconvenient for you to talk on the phone when you read this email, you can let me know via email that you are willing to talk on the phone and I’ll call you). If you get my voicemail, you can a leave a message and I can call you back. Even if you don’t want to go out again, I would appreciate it if you give me the courtesy of calling me and talking to me. Yes, you might say things that hurt me, but my feelings are already hurt.

Sending me an email response (instead of talking on the phone) would better than no response at all, but I think it would be better to talk on the phone. Email communication has too much potential for misinterpretation, etc.

Best, Mike

Quick Poll

Do you think Mike deserved a second chance with Lauren?

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If you're looking for fun date ideas, take a look at Life Coach Sophia Davis' round-up of dates with a difference that won't end up with a 1,615 word email...

Loading Slideshow...
  • Five Ways To Spice Up Your Dating Life

    By life coach <a href="http://www.sophiadavis.co.uk/" target="_hplink"><strong>Sophia Davis</strong></a>.

  • Get The Latin Fever

    "Why not try a Salsa class with your date? Work together to learn new dance moves and then show them off together. There are plenty of classes available for all levels of experience."

  • Be Adventurous

    "Go on an adventure and get energetic by solving mazes, climbing assault courses and swinging on ropes. Here, you will walk around what looks like an enchanted forest climbing trees and letting go of fears and inhibitions by throwing yourself into nets and such like. These are so much fun to experience and are dotted around the country so perfect for wherever you are based."

  • Have A Laugh

    "If you want to laugh, try a comedy club. There are loads of them dotted around the country, and you can have a drink and watch some talented comedians in action (if you do some research). Laugh till your ribs hurt, and share fun times and light-hearted entertainment with your new dating partner."

  • Listen To Music

    "Put the music back into your dating life by taking your diet to an outdoor music event, or an indoor concert. Rock out and listen to mellow jazz, it's your choice, but it'll definitely be a conversation starter and a chance to show off your moves!"

  • Be Romantic

    "Go for a romantic stroll, hand in hand in the outdoors. Visit a Christmas market or fair and get the adrenaline going by going on one of the rides, or show off your skating skills on the ice rink. Have a drink at one of the open bars, or just have a walk around and enjoy the festive buzz."

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If there were ever a lesson on what not to do after a first date, this would be it… A dejected man from New York sent his object of affection a 1,615 word email after she consistently ignored hi...
If there were ever a lesson on what not to do after a first date, this would be it… A dejected man from New York sent his object of affection a 1,615 word email after she consistently ignored hi...
 
 
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09:09 PM on 01/05/2013
Who would do such a thing?
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Takae
Change nothing, nothing changes.
05:05 PM on 11/12/2012
My grandmother told me to avoid men who regard themselves as 'very intelligent' because their favorite topics are themselves, and they're not as intelligent as they like to think they are. True intelligent men are the ones who're more interested in everything and everyone than themselves because of their thirst for an education in life.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
TisKishnsing
Brutal logic, unexpected honesty
04:42 PM on 11/11/2012
and here's why some men never get laid in their lifetime.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
TisKishnsing
Brutal logic, unexpected honesty
04:42 PM on 11/11/2012
apparently, Mike has 19.43% supporters as of this comment.
so it can be concluded that there are still many more creeps out there.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Robert SF
09:26 PM on 11/10/2012
The guys message is definitely over the top, but there is a valid complaint behind it. If someone extends an invitation that you don't wish to accept, say so instead of just ignoring the invitation. Ignoring people is rude, especially when they are not being rude (and the letter writer doesn't seem rude, just clueless).

Ladies, ignoring a guy hurts the guy as much as when a guy says he'll call you and then doesn't.

Guys, here's a tip: if you want a second date, ask for it and schedule it before the first date ends. If she doesn't already want to see you again, she's not going to change her mind later. Don't ask at the very beginning of the date, of course, because that will make things awkward. Ask as the date is winding down, as you take her back home.

That way, if she says no, you can make her walk home the rest of the way. Ha, ha, just kidding! No, don't do that. But do ask for the second date at the tail end of the first.
04:33 PM on 11/12/2012
Speaking from experience, there are some guys who will not stop and continue persisting even after a clear "no." On top of that, it is inappropriate to internet stalk someone after online dating. There is a reason people use websites, and don't give out our personal e-mail address. He has already shown himself to be this type of persistent, won't-take-a-hint person...we can gather she has already rejected him by ignoring him and leaving the date early. If she did contact him, he would probably freak out or not let her off the phone. So yes, I 100% understand why she has not contacted him.
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Robert SF
06:59 PM on 11/12/2012
No, sorry, what "some guys" might do is not excuse. She was rude and passive-aggressive.
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devondx
Totally De-regulate all RED states=JUSTICE..
08:58 PM on 11/09/2012
All of you posting here have led me on and I am writing a 1600 word diatribe to describe

how awesome I am even though its a boring and silly bit of chest-thumping-long-winded nonsense....

this guy is nuts and posting it was a smart move of self-defense by this woman...

hopefully someone who knows him will see it explain the phrase "take a hint and get a clue".....
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
hursh 4 ever
Smart Commenter - logical and wise
03:27 PM on 12/19/2011
"She"... is just another smug arrogant self centered individual who thinks everyone around her should be praying to the Gods that we are so fortunate to be living on the same planet as her...
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Laura Cress
11:24 AM on 11/12/2012
Sounds like something hit a very bitter nerve? Awkward!
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inkhosi
11:07 PM on 12/16/2011
Y'all had this up last week. Why are you posting it as if it's something new?
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nix28
Ignorance stirs my inner demon...Sorry.
08:01 PM on 12/15/2011
And I also think it's deplorable that she opted to post this online because she was angry. That was done purely out of spite.
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06:18 AM on 12/16/2011
I agree.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
inkhosi
11:08 PM on 12/16/2011
Yeah, this dude obviously had enough embarrassment...this is classless of her.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
nix28
Ignorance stirs my inner demon...Sorry.
07:59 PM on 12/15/2011
Wow...that smacks of desperation. Yes, she should have been adult enough to contact him and let him know that she was not interested in a second date. Beyond that, she was not obligated to do anything, and by her lack of response, it was clear that she was not interested. If she wasn't sure that she didn't want to go out with him again, I'm sure she's 100% now. This is just sad.
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hursh 4 ever
Smart Commenter - logical and wise
06:16 PM on 12/15/2011
the poor goofball had to resort to having to write a long letter when she could have just texted him back that she really wasnt interested...

some people get a kick out of making others look foolish... and that is what she did here...

she must think that she was some hot "s---" or something.
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Sol76
01:29 PM on 12/15/2011
This is what I hate about the Internet; making intimate pieces from random people's lives available to all for mockery and condemnation. I would not like to get an email like that from anyone and I would not write one like it but I also do not know the full context of these people's lives. Is there a mental health problem or something crucial between these two that is conspicuous in its absence from the email? We do not know and yet some people jump on this bandwagon of ridicule without considering that tomorrow it could be them, even if they are not investment bankers.
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cimmereo
manu ad ferram
12:32 PM on 12/15/2011
An investment banker?! Lauren would have better luck corresponding with some of the eligible men at Pelican Bay.
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anchises868
eminently reasonable, never extreme
03:16 AM on 12/16/2011
Now, now. The investment bankers will all be in Pelican Bay soon enough. :)
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Steve Lane
12:20 PM on 12/15/2011
Can you imagine what living with Mike would be like? Every thing you did would be open to minute examination and every day you would get a written report on your conduct.
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hursh 4 ever
Smart Commenter - logical and wise
10:44 AM on 12/15/2011
Well I don't blame him for being curious... sometimes females give no responses what so ever... all she would have had to say was "sorry, I'm not interested"...

but NO... she just chose to ignore him completely.. that on its own is very ignorant.. I seriously hate it when females do that... and I'm sure most people would agree... it works for females also, when the guy doesn't call them the next day or completely arrogantly avoids the girl.

All she had to say was..... SORRY, I'M NOT INTERESTED..
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hursh 4 ever
Smart Commenter - logical and wise
10:49 AM on 12/15/2011
she must think she's "all that" if ya know what I mean....

I sense a lot of arrogance from her, like a stuck up arrogance...and I'm sure she has had a lot of dates where she obviously felt that her date was "way beneath her" and deserved a nose in the air.

Like he is supposed to be some kinda mind reader of females...
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06:13 AM on 12/16/2011
It's ok, Mike. We understand. ;)