Scottish Referendum Row - Alex Salmond Stands By Belief He Can Hold A Poll Without Asking London

Scottish Independence Referendum Alex Salmond Refe

The Huffington Post UK   First Posted: 11/01/12 08:13 Updated: 11/01/12 08:41

Alex Salmond struck a slightly more conciliatory tone regarding a Scottish independence referendum on Wednesday morning, suggesting there could be further negotiations with Westminster on the mounting constitutional row. But the Scottish first minister insisted there was a case for Scotland being able to hold a referendum without asking London first, and hasn't relaxed his view that the vote should be held in the autumn of 2014.

"There's certainly a difference of view. The UK government has come up with one view... there's a great deal of legal opinion that the Scottish parliament can bring forward a consultative referendum," he told Radio 4's Today programme.

However in a political attack on David Cameron, Salmond reiterated his view that the Conservative PM was meddling with Scottish affairs.

"The objection is that the prime minister suddenly this week decided to start pulling strings and setting conditions," he said,

Salmond said he would be prepared to agree the ground rules "sometime this year", but rejected the idea that a third option on the referendum ballot paper - the so-called "Devomax" option of complete monetary independence for Scotland without breaking up the UK - should be ruled out.

"It's wrong at this stage to exclude a legitimate point of view in Scotland that is widely canvassed and supported," he said.

Yesterday the Scottish Secretary Michael Moore outlined his proposal to change the law to allow Scotland to hold a referendum in its own right

The Westminster government's position is that no independence referendum can be triggered by the Scottish Parliament under the current devolution laws. The coalition has now launched a consultation during which the Westminster government expects a deadline to be set for a referendum.

Westminster politicians want the vote to be held before 2014, possibly as soon as in a year's time.

But the SNP appear to be unwilling to negotiate the date, with Scotland's Deputy First Minister announcing last night - on Twitter - that their preferred date for Independence referendum was Autumn 2014.

The coalition government admits it is in untested territory, but believes a referendum could be held as early as a year from now.

Ministers have drawn up what's called a Section 30 Order, which would allow Scotland to hold a referendum without asking Westminster for permission, however this order needs to be agreed by both the parliaments in London and Edinburgh first. However it has attached a rider to the order, suggesting a deadline for the referendum should be agreed before the law is changed.

Sir Menzies Campbell, former Lib Dem leader and Scottish MP, told Today on Radio 4 that the legal row "has potential for very great difficulties all-round.

"No-one is challenging the fact that Mr. Salmond has a political mandate to hold a referendum, he's politically entitled," he said. "But there's an important distinction between a political mandate and legality. Does Scotland remain a member of the European Union if it were to go? These are fundamental questions which need to be resolved.

"Independence is not just for Christmas," he added.

Many political commentators believe Alex Salmond has the political upper hand over David Cameron - even if the law remains on the prime minister's side.

The BBC's political editor Nick Robinson describes Salmond as "the canniest political operator in these Isles", suggesting the Scottish first minister may have known the whole legal wrangle would blow up in the way it has.

Alex Salmond was clear on Tuesday morning that the Westminster government's posturing was encouraging support for independence within Scotland, describing David Cameron's statements on the controversy at the weekend as "Thatcher-esque."

However Nick Watt at the Guardian detects the hand of George Osborne in the coalition government's plan, suggesting that the chancellor is relaxed about pushing the independence issue to the wire. It's widely agreed that if Scotland became independent of Westminster, Labour would be unable to form a government in London for a generation because it would be deprived of its many Scottish seats in the Commons.

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Alex Salmond struck a slightly more conciliatory tone regarding a Scottish independence referendum on Wednesday morning, suggesting there could be further negotiations with Westminster on the mounting...
Alex Salmond struck a slightly more conciliatory tone regarding a Scottish independence referendum on Wednesday morning, suggesting there could be further negotiations with Westminster on the mounting...
 
 
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Mark B Robertson
15:15 on 13/01/2012
The referendum will be held in Autumn 2014. Alec made a commitment, and has kept to it. Maybe the members of the Westminster troika (aka Cameron, Osborne & Clegg) should take note that keeping to manifesto commitments make it look as if you have political integrity.
14:20 on 08/03/2012
No it wont, Salmond has no mandate to make such a committment! It is not his decision to make, but then the only difference between Salmond and Griffin is the accent!
19:26 on 12/01/2012
Would david cameron and his pet clegg. Be happy if he had an election date in mind. But then us (the scots) decided that no we wanted an earlier date. err no David would be very upset. So mr cameron leave the scottish to decide there own destiny
23:38 on 11/01/2012
sounds like perry in texas... ;)
22:42 on 11/01/2012
It should be up to the Scottish elected MPs to decide when to vote. Reminds me of the Joke about the Farmer allowing the Turkeys to vote about Christmas and the Farmer says Yes but the vote will take place on December the 26th.
19:35 on 11/01/2012
Just to get the record straight I rang my mate Dave and he said Scotland can have a referendum whenever they want? it wouldn't mean diddly squat. But Westminster will decide as and when it will be binding as to the issue of independence for Scotland? But it will be before Mr Salmon swims the tweed either this year or next and it will only be two questions in or out. No on the fence max plank best of both worlds, but he was a little worried about the amount of Scots joining the SNP! So it could be sooner than later and he also said he's fed up of beejay just carping on pulling every English comment apart, he said there is always two sides to every story but beejay has only read Rob Roy of the rovers. He also said we can talk about it all we want but the decision will be made when its made, so stop getting uptight and just wait for the big day. Just let me know if you want to talk to my mate Dave and get it first hand he lives in Dudley he's really into ito this stuff.
17:57 on 11/01/2012
It is not fair of Alex Salmond to expect the rest of the UK to wait two and a half years for Scotland to make up its mind whether to separate or not. It creates uncertainty for everyone - governments, business, individuals. For goodness sake, Scotland, get on with it and stop this dithering.
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BeeJayCeee
I still loathe Thatcher
18:22 on 11/01/2012
"It is not fair of Alex Salmond"

Of course it's fair, that's what he promised in the SNP election manifesto and that's what he's delivering. Imagine that, a politician who keeps his word!

"For goodness sake, Scotland, get on with it and stop this dithering."

There is no dithering. The referendum is going to be held just as the SNP promised.
18:50 on 11/01/2012
Aye aye here we go again !!!
14:23 on 08/03/2012
He had no mandate to set a date. That was not his decsions to make, he knows that and is playing the game of peeing up the wall conetsts ith Westminster! Sad fact is, the Scots are being led like donkeys by the village idiot into a wall of hardship, bankruptcy and despair. We will enjoy watching it!
19:05 on 11/01/2012
Hear hear.
16:03 on 11/01/2012
A S just after more power, he want's to b king of Scotland. lol
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BeeJayCeee
I still loathe Thatcher
18:22 on 11/01/2012
No he doesn't. You know nothing about Alex Salmond or our politics.
18:54 on 11/01/2012
That's a very broad statement and very ignorant of you, how do you know that frogs knows nothing about salmon or politics a very bigoted statement.
22:15 on 11/01/2012
grow up
19:02 on 11/01/2012
Please dont upset beejay he has an awful temper when he get going off on one
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Daviejohn
All the world's a stage,
12:54 on 11/01/2012
A consultative referendum? that would be worthless, no more than an opinion pole. You could ask MORI or YouGov to conduct that, it would appear Mr.Salmond is wriggling. The issue is of importance to all of the British,not just his few supporters
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14:18 on 11/01/2012
In the UK any referendum is essentially consultative. An EU membership referendum would be like that too, but it willdn't be wise for any government to ignore the democratically expressed will of the electorate.
I think if anyone is wriggling here it certainly isnt Eck.
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Sickofpoliticians2
here to pissuoff
15:36 on 11/01/2012
All of this forcing Mr Salmond into a corner will only go in favour of independen­­ce, AS will be quite aware of this and has laid the trap for our pols to fall into, come 2014 with the Scots kicking back against being pushed around by the clown coalition I reckon an overwhelmi­­ng majority of Scots will want out, in similar fashion to the majority wanting out of the EU. Taking away any peoples democratic right to a say or forcing their hand on big issues like this is not about to end well, no-one likes being pushed around but the Tories cant see it, they just stick to the mantra, "my way or the hiway", not good political practice imo.
11:39 on 11/01/2012
Democracy dictates that Scotland decides whether it wants to stay with the marriage. If the other side believe it has the legal right to refuse a Scottish divorce then someone need explaining to them what democracy actually means.
12:00 on 11/01/2012
So, have the vote and go. SIMPLES
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13:29 on 11/01/2012
You must understand that this is not a 'marriage', but the potential breaking up of a nation by a political party and its leaders who see themselves as big fishes in a small pond.

It is the duty of the National Government to see that any referendum is fair and honest and not one gerrymandered by ambitious politicians.

Unless the referendum is recognised internationally as lawful, an 'independent' Scotland would have the same legal status as Trans-Dniestr.

As PM of our great and united country, it is David Cameron's DUTY to ensure the well-being of the Scottish people, and to ensure that their voice is clearly heard.
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13:36 on 11/01/2012
"the potential breaking up of a nation "
You should know better than that len. The UK isn't a nation. It is a union of nations, one of which is in the process of deciding whether or not it wishes to remain a part of.
10:29 on 11/01/2012
If you visit any area in the UK you will find some people who dislike the outcomes that come from the process we laughing call democracy. Most people tolerate the processes deficiencies because the pro's out weigh the con's. Local politicians generate their popularity and gain leverage through exploiting the local peoples outrage at the actual and percieved deficiencies the democratic process produces. If they play the situation well they can get some local advantage from Westminister. The current Scottish First Minister is playing that game right now.

As for the vexing question of who should have a say in the " seperation question ". Well in a marriage each party has rights and both most agree to stay together, but each has the right to go their own way. In my opinion everyone should be involved with the English, Welsh and Irish on one side and the Scots on the other. It maybe the former three have had enough and vote to go their own way irrespective of the majority of Scots wanting to maintain the union. But that is democracy.

As I read the situation, the silent majority on both sides want the union to continue and want the position resolved quickly, but as always the politicians are playing the situation, if they were your kids they would be getting their backsides smacked.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Raymond Soltysek
12:08 on 11/01/2012
Scotland is not an "area". It is not a "locality". It is a nation.
12:15 on 11/01/2012
Point taken and so is ENGLAND, WALES and Ireland. Like I said, it's high time we shook hands and got on.
09:25 on 11/01/2012
Huff Post stirring up Racial Hatred, wonder if you have read your own Terms & Conditions ???? Remove the picture at once or you will be reported to Offcom!!!!
10:47 on 11/01/2012
Got to agree with you on that @british4ever. The guys that post on here from Scotland particularly WLQ put across their points without (with the exception of the odd occassion!!) any reference to violence or war and by and large the retorts from the English are far more deflammatory. I have had the pleasure of working with, serving with and spending copious amounts of time with Scotsmen and can usually give as good as they get without a punch being thrown. I must state I am an Englishman 7th generation (thats as far back as I can go) and proud of it. When the Scots display the same sentiments about their passion for their Country we accuse them of being in some way treasonous or "shortbread tin Scots". The newspapers, media in general and Westminster in particular have Alex Salmond down as some rabid English hater and after listening to him on radio 4 this morning, a more reasonable man with reasonable passionate views you would find hard to find in the corridoors of Westminster. Even severe baiting by the presenter did not see him rise to it. I think the media per se should back off and stick to the facts, stop demonising AS and let him deliver what he has promised since day 1 - not a war with England but a referendum on the future of his Country in the last quarter of his tenure as Scotlands first minister.
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11:04 on 11/01/2012
Thanks for your post there buddy. Voices of reason are what we all need when discussing the matter in hand and that photograph is not going to help that in any way. It's more likely to hinder in fact. Eck is well used to interviews of that nature by now. The Scottish media (most of whom oppose his aims for their own political ends) use the same risible tactic with him and generally he just puts them politely but very firmly in their place. He's no hater, but he will not be moved from his well thought out position on anything.
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BeeJayCeee
I still loathe Thatcher
11:32 on 11/01/2012
I really appreciate what you've written, here. I've found some of the comments recently astonishing in their level of contempt and while I may not always keep my temper as well as some, I do try to present facts and reason to counter the outright lies and deliberately offensive remarks.

England and Scotland have many things in common, including many of our people, and whatever happens with the referendum we'll always have very strong ties.
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10:57 on 11/01/2012
I'm in agreement with both yourself and Raldor in the post immediately below. That photograph is awful and in no way reflects what is happening. Incitement of this nature is neither helpful nor justified. Shocking stuff.
09:14 on 11/01/2012
A rather provactive photograph.
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Lady Saera
Love,love,love is the soul of genius, 'Mozart'
12:01 on 11/01/2012
A bit deliberate I think too
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12:20 on 11/01/2012
Nasty little piece of photo-cropping -- I assume the background logo is part of the word "forward"... (one of the SNP slogans is "moving Scotland forward").
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13:18 on 11/01/2012
Surely you're not suggesting that AOL|Huff|Po is trying to drive more traffic to this site by using inflammatory headlines and pictures?