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Government Defeated Again In Lords On Welfare Reform Bill And The Bedroom Tax

Welfare Reform Lords

The Huffington Post UK   First Posted: 14/02/2012 17:13 Updated: 15/02/2012 07:00

The government's Welfare Reform Bill has been defeated once again in the Lords over the so-called "bedroom tax". Peers have attempted to force concessions by the government so that some of the poorest households won't lose benefits for having a spare bedroom.

The crossbench peer Lord Best, who was behind the original bid to water down the bedroom tax, moved the latest amendment, which was passed by the Lords with a majority of 10. His new clause is a concession to ministers, and he claimed in the Lords that rather than costing the taxpayer £200m, the total cost would now be around £100m.

It's not known whether the government will back down, now the so-called bedroom tax has been voted down twice in the Lords.

Last week the government declared "financial privilege" on seven amendments to the Bill - using a convention whereby Lords may not debate or vote on financial matters. The declaration was branded "unprecedented" and an "abuse of power", because it only made that declaration when the Bill came into difficulty in the Lords.

Speaking at the start of the debate on Tuesday afternoon the former speaker of the Commons, Baroness Boothroyd, said the Commons had behaved in a "very heavy-handed manner."

"The constitution of our country operates by convention," she told peers. "This is a bicameral parliament, it operates by negotiation. Where were the usual channels during all of this?"

Those amendments were:

  • To overturn the amount paid to children who are receiving the lower rate of Disability Allowance (DLA). The government wants to cut the total paid out to children receiving the lower rate, because they say payments to children have grown out-of-kilter with those paid to adults
.

Although the government did agree to several Lords amendments when the Commons considered them last week, these seven amendments were rejected on grounds of financial privilege.

The House of Commons is in half-term recess so will be unable to react to any further amendments until next week at the earliest. The government is keen to get the legislation passed to it can begin its significant changes to the welfare system, which will take several years.

Ministers are thought to want the Bill passed into law by the 31st of March, the end of the financial year.

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The government's Welfare Reform Bill has been defeated once again in the Lords over the so-called "bedroom tax". Peers have attempted to force concessions by the government so that some of the poores...
The government's Welfare Reform Bill has been defeated once again in the Lords over the so-called "bedroom tax". Peers have attempted to force concessions by the government so that some of the poores...
 
 
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10:21 on 17/02/2012
dont this goverment realise thats its immigrants that are taking up all the houses" have they got blinkers on or what they should send back the immigrants get them out then" wallah" lots of empty houses schools ect ect also i do believe that one person living in a three bedroom house should accept a smaller place in fact it should be compulsary around here there are loads that say well i brought my kids up here all my memories are in this house ect but i say to them its NOT your house its council you dont own it. also your memories are in your head and they go with you where ever you are i see disabled old people who have had strokes ect they have a stairs to climb steps in front of their houses ?? how do they manage " MMM " surely a bungalow or one bedroom place who be easier for their everyday life and by the way i am 65 and down graded from a 4 bedroom house to a 3 then a flat after my 4 children all left so whats the problem also i wish it was voting time this geverment wont get in again they need to do something about immigrants pay them to go home if need be then we the true english people would reep the benefit of our old beloved britain back again bring back good old days and enoch
14:35 on 16/02/2012
Par for the course if it does not suit them move the goalposts to suit their ends. Do as I say not as I do!!!
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chrisctpaul
Things can only get better
13:24 on 15/02/2012
The welfare system is totally unfair, many people get more than others anyway.

I had to claim benefits a while back, I was entitled to £165 or so for my family, plus I was entitled to housing benefit.

I have a mortgage of £195 per month, yet the DWP only paid £82 per month towards the payments. Upon querying this, I was told this was correct as they only pay the interest. Yet if I lost my home and rented a similar property, the rent would be £450-£500 per month and the DWP would happily pay the rent in full?! That was unfair also.

Anyhow it no longer matters because I am back into employment now, but just sharing my experiences.
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mokgee
07:35 on 15/02/2012
The true bone idle in Britain, plus all the immigrants flooding into Britain, must be delighted with all of this farce going on. What is the point of any government without teeth or authority, none at all that is what..That lot in the lords lost touch with reality decades ago, they are the second goverment. Then there is the goverment of all governments, the EU junta..In the meantime Britain continues to deteriorate by traitors on suicide missions at the cost to the nation and it's indigenous people..This suicide is not about a country, it is about power and don't we know it....
09:06 on 15/02/2012
Polititions are scared to lose votes, thus tend
too go for the weaker option, when important
decisions have to be made.
A no win situation.
We need a Churchill, of sorts.
wes
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11:21 on 15/02/2012
We need a new messiah Les. It will take a miracle to get us out of the mess we're in. Wine and fish butty, anyone ?
06:47 on 15/02/2012
To have a fair bedroom tax would mean taxing everyone with extra bedrooms. That would mean all the extra homes that the rich have too when not occupied. Then on top it should be based on what band your property is in, the higher the band the higher the tax. The Lords would either have to fight for the equality side or stop it. They would not want to pay more tax themselves would they. LOL!
09:24 on 15/02/2012
You misunderstand - it is not a tax but a reduction in housing benefits. It is in the hope that those occupying council housing that is no longer required by them ie 3 bedroom house occupied by elderly couple will move to something more suitable. This will only work if they can be moved to something in same area or an area and accomodation that they are happy with. The rich or anyone not claiming benefits have paid for their properties and are not asking for anyone else to fund it. I do think anyone in too large a property for their needs should be encouraged to downsize which would generally help the housing market/supply and remove the need to build especially on green field sites.
10:16 on 15/02/2012
You mean something like a Poll Tax? been tried before and even DC will steer clear of that one, not least because the rich would pay more.
06:21 on 15/02/2012
I do not like this so called bedroom tax.
I do understand the workings behind it though.
Many council houses in my area alone are under occupied.
I know several who live alone, in a three bedroom house,
while many couples with children, cannot get a council house.
Due too the large deposit required on buying a private house now.
Many are left living in cramp conditions.
It is a hard one, as older people, like to stay where they are,
which is quite understandable.
The slightly younger ones, should make an effort too
free up the under occupied houses, as councils cannot afford
new builds right now.
Moving house does cost money, and councils should help out
in this area as they need these houses.
wes
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BuxtonBlueCat
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08:10 on 15/02/2012
100% spot on! We have bounty in the £billions to give to so called 3rd world countries such as India, Pakistan and parts of Africa, who waste their monies on weapons and luxuries living for those at the top. The government should now withdraw all support; it is borrowing money to pay out to the world - what about the UK citizens? Much could be done with housing shortages, NHS etc. if the focus were on the people who actually pay!
16:21 on 15/02/2012
Good post.

''The government should now withdraw all support; it is borrowing money to pay out to the world - what about the UK citizens?''

If only for a set period of say 5 years then to be reviewed.
''
08:51 on 15/02/2012
Old people or those over 60 who have been in the same property for over 10yrs should be allowed to stay and people who would like to down size should be helped by the councils..also..if youre on social security or in a council property the council already reduces your benefits so they will not pay for you to be under occupied...I couldnt get a flat when I was in desperate need ( i,m a pensioner) although it was reasonable rent because I am single and it had 2 bedrooms..allbeit one a tiny boxroom you could only have a putmeup bed in ..
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WaveRhydr
DIEBOLD-WE VOTE SO YOU DONT HAVE TO
05:46 on 15/02/2012
Austerity is not the way... like anyone should have to actually point that out to anyone, now. Please read Paul Krugmans blog, or some of Robert Reich's material. Even look up John Maynard Keynes work from the American Great Depression.

Forget Germany & their Weimar hyperinflation. That was essentially intentional on their part to rid themselves of war debt that was impossible to repay.

Right now Europe is worried about the wrong boogeyman. There IS NO INFLATION on the horizon, and DEflation, just like the DEflation that crippled America in the '30s is your worry, and you feed DEflation by doing just what your country is currently doing.
05:37 on 15/02/2012
I think the UK is clutching at straws, I do not believe the Politicians are telling the people the whole truth about the Uk's financial position at all. the UK is about to enter recession again, its growth is zero, its unemployment rate is high, its taxation is high. If you are rich you are fine, paying yourself a measly 100 pounds a week but taking out low taxed money as well known as shareholders dividends. OK I agree there are scroungers, the ones who require a new car every 2 yrs and use their mobility payments to get them, there are those who get pregnant every 18 months because the child allowance is so good they can live better than those that work, child allowance should be for the first one only! Oh! and dont forget once you have a child right through until i believe 16 years old, you will never be homeless, because the councils have to home you. I left the UK 3 years ago after being made redundant from a senior position in construction, only to find that I was on the scrap heap, they wanted young inexperienced people, who would work for peanuts, and I would never lower myself to this. There needs to be another Industrial Revolution to bring back a manufacturing base and provide jobs, all this green crap and green taxes is rubbish the UK's carbon footprint is so small it will make no difference to the rest of the world.
08:03 on 15/02/2012
so everyone who has a mobility car is a scrounger ?? I would like you to be disabled enough to warrant getting a mobility car - and its every 3 years not 2. I know people who without their mobility car would not go out of the house from one week to the next because even getting taxis is not suitable for them.
08:58 on 15/02/2012
your so right..but they need to weed out the folk that get a mobility car and dont need one..I saw someone last week who has one..and walk with walking aids and was shovelling away everyones snow...no aids needed..it can be seen everyday folk abusing the system on any street..then maybe the folk who need them and have been refused might benefit,,
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11:17 on 15/02/2012
A mobility car used to be a specially-adapted three wheeler that cost virtually nothing to run. Nowadays it seems to be better than the working class can afford. Something has to change.
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03:42 on 15/02/2012
"poorest households" - they are the people who work and do not get handouts - you know, the ones who are PAYING for these endless "benefits" - no one gives a thought for them.
05:40 on 15/02/2012
I'm one of those, this law would have affected..I am 51yrs old, have worked all my life, from the age of 14yrs..but now, due to Rheumatoid Arthritis, cannot work..I barely get by on what I am given in benefits..any less, would put me in situation of choosing either to heat my house in winter or eat.. Worked hard to be able to buy house I live in..Am now divorced living on my own..Am I to be penalised for a disease, I have NO, control over..just because I have an extra room..I would rather be out there working, than living in constant pain every single day..24/7..
06:33 on 15/02/2012
I think this only applied to council houses.
wes
03:00 on 15/02/2012
Our so-called "leaders" will just keep trying every trick they can to suck everything they can from britain and its people to feed their moronic and idiotic ideas about trying to influence and help out every other country that has problems and to heck with the people of britain and their concerns. The sooner theyre gone and someone put in place that actually cares about the future of britain and its people the better, im so very beyond tired of their comedic routines, this is all a very badly written comedy.. at least in carry on films, everything worked out for the best, this..is not going to be one of those endings unless we can get rid of the prats in charge who are completely out of touch
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BuxtonBlueCat
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08:19 on 15/02/2012
... but you're only going to replace the current prats, with more even bigger prats. Once people get to become MPs, the majority appear to forget their roots and begin to line their own nests. It doesn't matter which party is in power, they move to live in the ether of the gods - all sense and promises made at election time evaporates into the mist. They then move to the Lords and continue ... Social housing should be untouchable for resale and it was a calamity when this was approved; flexible movement should be part of the rental agreement, then couples, families and the elderly can all be housed economically - so long as they do not destroy the property/neighbourhood they live in - which unfortunately, some do.
09:54 on 15/02/2012
Correct once polititions reach their goal
they care little for the public, they are sworn to serve.
I see this in my own area.
wes
02:58 on 16/02/2012
Unfortunately you are correct, which is why we need to change the system in our fair land. Tell them, ok..youre in charge now..but if you dont improve things in a certain period of time (give them a list of things..they dont have to improve everything..just something)..then youre gone. Make it plain and simple for them so there is no misunderstanding, they want to be leaders of britain..then they lead britain..not the EU, not some other country..what they do is for britain and its people. I too am so very tired of politicians who are nothing but hot air and false promises for 4 years.
I know, i just know there are polticians out there that are good..where they are? i couldnt say..i just know they exist. Unfortunately again people seem to be fooled a lot when it comes to these slick conmen. This is all why i said we need to throw them out and have people in that actually will put our britain first before other countries for a while, put our people first for a change..it'll be hard to find these people, but then it would be worthwhile..but lets stand up as a nation and say enough is enough for a change
02:53 on 15/02/2012
What a bunch of nob heads this government is
02:32 on 15/02/2012
So will the Queen be getting the Civil List reduced for her 52 empty bedrooms in Buckingham Palace?
02:07 on 15/02/2012
Just goes to show how much we need the house of lords (who don't have a political axe to grind) to protect us from "elected" house of of commons cronies.
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WaveRhydr
DIEBOLD-WE VOTE SO YOU DONT HAVE TO
05:52 on 15/02/2012
Amazing, huh? If I read the meaning of your post correctly, your house of commons has been bought off by corporate Over Lords, just as our congress has in The States. Yes?
09:57 on 15/02/2012
More or less. The current cabinet is a collection of millionaires who have their own agenda and the entire commons is filled with people with vested interests. We are not a democracy in any real sense, those that are elected have agenda's that are not in the best interests of the majority. Look at the policies being put through to see that it is those in greatest need and the majority that are really having to make sacrifices. The Elite Rich are not touched in any meaningful way; yet that is where the wealth is, virtually all of it. This is why the economy has slowed. The gap between the elite and the majority is getting bigger all the time and the economy is suffering because of it. You cannot make money off people with no money. Look how power companies are ripping us all off. They made 6 billion profit, why not make just 1 billion and make life easier for everyone. Look at house prices, Currently the average house costs 8 times the average wage (and most people don't earn £26,000 per year or more) and even key workers, teachers, police etc cannot afford to buy these houses. The problem is caused by the "Free Market", it runs riot and is distorted by a rich few who buy properties to rent out and by government who do nothing to address our housing shortage (we have a shortfall in the uk of 4 million homes).
01:49 on 15/02/2012
The whole thing sounds like a script from the Carry On films.
10:28 on 15/02/2012
It is , but unfortunately paladikal tells it as it is
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chrisctpaul
Things can only get better
01:19 on 15/02/2012
So why was the bedroom tax only aimed at people living in council homes? It seems that if the family was living in privately rented accomodation, then they would not be affected by these cuts?

If such cuts were brought in, then the government surely would have to make sure that council homes of the correct size were immediately made available to families who faced having their housing benefit cut?

The result would have been that there simply wouldn't be enough appropriate sized homes, and I would argue that if an appropriate sized home was not available, then it would be unfair to reduce the housing benefit?
01:23 on 15/02/2012
That's probably why it was blocked...because they soon realised that they were potentially shooting themselves in the foot as many people are already living in overcrowded accommodation and they would have to address this far greater issue...
09:31 on 15/02/2012
But what if there was suitable housing - shouldn't people move? I agree that if they cannot find anything smaller should not then be able to reduce benefit. I think council/social housing for young 18+ needs to be rethought and they should be provided with similar accommodation to university students -not the expectation or right to one bedroom flats which many in work could not afford to provide for their own children at age 18+. I also think council housing should be less ghettoised (not sure how to spell this) so education is less polarised and social mobility would be increased.
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chrisctpaul
Things can only get better
11:18 on 15/02/2012
Should people be forced to move if a suitable property was found? It is unfair to the current tenants to move, after all they probably would have decorated the home.

However, if they have a house with spare rooms, the government are paying excessive rent to those people and there could be people living in crowded accomodation that could really benefit from a larger home.

Also should the government force you out of your home, then I would expect them to compensate the tenant for the moving costs involved?

I really do wonder if this bedroom tax would be cost effective?
12:10 on 15/02/2012
University Students only usually live in their accommodation during term time, and then go back to their parents/guardians home for the summer and other holidays (effectively living there for 9 months out of 12), they then leave university and therefore leave their accommodation. If a young person aged 18+ requires accommodation, it is more than likely that either their parents no longer want them in their home, or they are homeless, and therefore vulnerable.

With regard to your comment about 'ghettoisation', this is not a choice, it is a complex interplay between poverty, social exclusion, legal, racial and political issues, too much to write about here - suffice to say that a ghetto cannot simply be 'less' of a ghetto easily. Oh and by the way, there are many university students who live in these ghetto's as you refer to them.