Alex Salmond Rejects Minister's 'Scaremongering' Over Scottish Border Controls

Scottish Independence

PA/Huffington Post   First Posted: 20/02/2012 20:40 Updated: 20/02/2012 20:40

The UK government should stop "scaremongering" over issues such as border controls, Scotland's first minister has insisted.

Alex Salmond's comments came after the coalition government's Europe minister claimed that Scotland may have to establish passport controls at the English border if it voted for independence.

On a visit to the Scottish Parlianment on Monday to discuss developments in the eurozone with MSPs, David Lidington said Scotland would not necessarily inherit the UK's opt-out of the Schengen Agreement which permits freedom of movement around most of Europe.

The opt-out means EU citizens are still subject to passport checks at UK borders.

Speaking in a post-committee briefing, he said opt-outs like Schengen, and also of the euro currency, "require not just a bilateral agreement between the UK and an independent Scotland, it would require the agreement of all of the other member states as well".

He said: "The fact that the UK has an opt-out from Schengen means that we are able to maintain the border controls that you don't have on the borders between Schengen countries.

"Logically, if Scotland were in Schengen, every Schengen country has to dismantle border checks with other Schengen countries, and have border checks with other EU states that are outside Schengen.

"That is why, for example, if I fly to Munich from London I have to go through a passport check before I can transit to a plane connecting to Poland.

"So there's a logic in the way that Schengen is organised, and that is a clear problem that Scotland would have to face up to."

But a spokesman for Salmond responded by saying: "It is in the interests of the UK Government to stop scaremongering on these issues because their silly claims are rebounding back on them, just as the attacks on an independent Scotland's credit rating have backfired on the Chancellor.

"All of these tired old scare stories are demonstrably untrue. They are insulting to Scotland and the only effect they are having is to boost support for independence.

"As legal, constitutional and European experts have confirmed, the reality is that Scotland is part of the territory of the European Union and the people of Scotland are citizens of the EU. There is no provision for either of these circumstances to change upon independence, and the rest of the UK will be in exactly the same position.

"We will both be successor states, with exactly the same status within the EU, as the AFP news agency reported only last week.

"Therefore, for example, the cast-iron position is that an independent Scotland will continue to use the pound. The Scottish Secretary in the UK Government has said that Scotland can continue to use sterling, so the Westminster coalition is totally incoherent.

"The lesson for UK politicians is to be careful what they say about Scotland because the same attacks apply to them. The anti-independence parties should adopt a more positive and constructive approach."

However, Lidington's comments were gfiven some backing by Scottish Liberal Democrat leader Willie Rennie MSP, who said: "Passport controls between England and Scotland would have a significant impact on the ease of travel between our two nations. This would have an impact on business and personal relations.

"The SNP may hysterically dismiss these concerns but they need to provide us with a guarantee backed by evidence that this will never happen. Only then will we believe their assertions."

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The UK government should stop "scaremongering" over issues such as border controls, Scotland's first minister has insisted. Alex Salmond's comments came after the coalition government's Europe mini...
The UK government should stop "scaremongering" over issues such as border controls, Scotland's first minister has insisted. Alex Salmond's comments came after the coalition government's Europe mini...
 
 
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11:24 PM on 02/21/2012
What the article fails to mention is that both the rump UK and Scotland would be considered as successor states and would both be subject to the same negotiations, if any. Given the recent stories about the failures at the UK border control agency it might be better if both countries joined the Schengen Treaty and concentrated their border control efforts on travellers coming from outside the EU.
08:38 PM on 03/02/2012
Well said.
02:42 PM on 02/21/2012
Anyone have any idea of the SNP Clan plan for border controls or passports or quarantine procedure or driving licences or in fact anything other than historical documents and history ?

Do we get to immigrate to other parts of the UK or if we leave the land of the rising Salmond are we denied re entry ?

As non resident Scot's will not have voting rights can we withdraw our savings from Scottish banks and sell all property in Scotland as it is obvious if we do not get a vote The Clan SNP do not want us in there utopia of milk and honey so we might as well sell up and let the 16 and 17 year olds take over.

Will the Wee King protect Scotlands pensioners or will they be left to forage for scraps as the Wee King and Clan SNP only want the young and the wealthy to live in the Salmond Kingdom.

Answer the questions Clan SNP that live on Huffington,,,or is it the fact they are scared to tell the Scottish people the truth ?
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04:20 PM on 02/21/2012
The real question here is: Will you ever grow up, cease insulting people with every post you make and for once make a constructive suggestion explaining why staying part of the westminster nightmare is a good idea for a nation of 5 million who have apparently decided they want to make up their own minds on the viability and desirability of a union for the first time since its corrupt inception over 300 years ago?
Or would that be asking too much?
08:33 PM on 03/02/2012
HAHAHAHA,,Typical WLQ no answers to the questions just references to history.
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Allyb999
03:44 PM on 02/22/2012
Ok here we go please pay attention and stop the ranting for a second.
Every Scottish person has the right to vote if they stay in Scotland.
Feel free to take your money and put it in any bank you wish to.
Feel free to sell your property if you feel you need to.
16 and 17 year olds are the future of the country so they will eventually take over.
Scotland does not have a King, we have a Queen.
There is not a Salmond Kingdom, you really need to actually state facts not things made up in your head.
There is no Clan SNP, again making things up does not make them real.
Border control, passports, quaratine, driving licences will all be sorted out when and if we vote for independence.
Is that enough facts for you, since you seem to just make things up to suit your own agenda.
08:36 PM on 03/02/2012
Allyb999 You are really the funniest girl on Huffington, I used to think you were a guy but now i realise you are a girl.
Thanks Babe
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tc-byrne
Victoria Concordia Crescit
01:40 PM on 02/21/2012
Border control is that likely "no", expensive toll roads possibly, is scaremongering relevent, well the fact that the SNP felt the need to shoot this down would suggest that it is, plant the seed and all that,
and will westminister take any notice of an exercise in public opinion north of the border ?.

And can you really afford not to buy a lottery ticket, well ask Westminister or the SNP, well one will tell you without adoubt and the other will say that nonsense.
02:34 PM on 02/21/2012
Just a few questions answered by the Wee King and Clan SNP would be helpful !
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tc-byrne
Victoria Concordia Crescit
03:26 PM on 02/21/2012
Well like all people in the flat world society the SNP dont have any anwsers, but they've got 2-1/2 years to think some up.
03:57 PM on 02/21/2012
for someone that is supposed to be very inteligent,( & I have no doubts he is ) he certainly seems to leaves lot to be desired in the relevent answers catagory
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Gilbert McLardy
12:02 PM on 02/21/2012
On a visit to the Scottish Parlianment on Monday to discuss developments in the eurozone with MSPs, David Lidington said Scotland would not necessarily inherit the UK's opt-out of the Schengen Agreement which permits freedom of movement around most of Europe.
The opt-out means EU citizens are still subject to passport checks at UK borders

Salmond "We will both be successor states, with exactly the same status within the EU, as the AFP news agency reported only last week.

This Idiot forgets; the UK is made up of four countries and we as one unit are part of Europe and we are in the EU as equal partners. It’s not just England that’s in the EU, when Scotland separates from England there will no-longer be a UK and England may have to renegotiate their treaty within Europe, for without Scotland in the UK mix, England could no-longer call it the UK and as such their voting power in the EU would be severely weakened, and this is the reason for all of the scaremongering, England would lose its power in Europe. It’s not the separation that worries England it’s the thought of losing its influence on the world stage.

As for the Lib-Dem's, their a completely spent force in politics since joining at the hip with the Tories.
12:59 AM on 02/22/2012
There is a distinction as to what constitutes a "country" in international law - as opposed to common every day language.
In every day terms you are right in saying there are four "countries" E, W, NI and S.

However, the argument is not in every day language, it must be conducted using constitutional law terms, So. Scotland is a previously independent country, in a temporary international Union agreement, and will leave to return to self government.
Scotland signed a Union with England. The latter country includes Wales. Wales was merged by conquest. Tough on the Welsh, but there it is. They are not a 'country' so far as international law is concerned. (The Welsh would have to assert a right to self determination and gain international recognition) NI is a territory retained by military power. It is not and never has been a country of itself, unto itself. So, in international law, there are two countries in this situation to consider - Scotland and "EWNI" as Lord Tebbitt has named it in a recent Telegraph blog of his. His blog confirms that the Lord Chancellor confirms this assessment and that there will be "two successor states" just as Salmond said. Look it up for yourself.
01:24 PM on 02/22/2012
Scotland is not the UK, just a tiny proportion of the population and an even small contributor to the economy, it would have a far greater impact on the UK as a whole if Kent decided to leave the union, get over yourselves> Even without you the UK is still one of thee worlds largest economies and Scotland is err wet?
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Allyb999
03:49 PM on 02/22/2012
Is kent a country now?
No Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland are the UK.
So please feel free to explain why Westminster is hell bent in keeping Scotland if they are so small and insignificant?
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Gilbert McLardy
07:55 PM on 02/23/2012
Well Handy Andy; you delude yourself; obviously you have never had someone work out the figures for you. Then there are the Welsh and Irish people, most of which like the Scots are Celts. If you talk to the real Welsh, not the white settlers, you will find that if Scotland goes its own way, then it is very likely that Wales and Ireland would within a few years follow suit, Then O' Then O' Deary Me, WHAT THEN ENGLAND.
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Mark B Robertson
10:07 AM on 02/21/2012
I wish I knew what these Unionists were on? The abandonment of intelligence seem to happen consistently when they talk about Scottish Independence. The continuous use of scare-mongering tactics in the belief that Scots will swallow it hook line and sinker, would be insulting if it was not so stupidly counterproductive. The continuous insulting of Scottish people's inteligence is doing more to increase numbers of the SNP membership than any tactic the Unionists have tried so far.
10:11 AM on 02/21/2012
Mark B Robertson if the Wee King and Clan gave a few answers to the hundreds of questions maybe what you call scaremongering and what others call realistic questions would stop.
Answer the question, explain an independent Scotland's border control policy ?
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Mark B Robertson
10:19 AM on 02/21/2012
We keep people like out! Succinct enough.
11:54 AM on 02/21/2012
yormerlin.
Perhaps you would care to list all the benifits to Scotland of remaining a part of the UK.
I'm sure the"Wee King" would love to hear about them. I know I would. I could do with a good laugh.
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09:34 AM on 02/21/2012
Really, HP -- you need to have a serious word with your picture editor.
09:54 AM on 02/21/2012
Molli they are car window stickers you can buy them from many Scottish shops do you not shop in Scotland MolliBlum ?
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10:02 AM on 02/21/2012
What does this caricature have to do with the article?
northern git
fed up with all the political crap in life
09:25 AM on 02/21/2012
don't worry about our borders

they might get an Argentinian contingent in courtecy of the SNP, they will have diplomatic status though, to protect them from the troublesome English
09:18 AM on 02/21/2012
So everything the Wee King says we have to believe as being truthful but everything any other politician from any other part of the UK is just scare mongering ?
Could I suggest the Wee King Salmond may not be as truthful as he makes believe, if in fact the Wee King was honest would he not bring forward the some details of the border controls an independent Scotland would have.
09:31 AM on 02/21/2012
Same border controls we have with Ireland perhaps?
09:48 AM on 02/21/2012
I did not realise England had a border with Eire, maybe you are better at geography than I am ?
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09:47 AM on 02/21/2012
You say "if [Salmond] was honest would he not bring forward the some details of the border controls an independen­t Scotland would have."

Well, if you care to read the article, it states:

[Salmond] said opt-outs like Schengen... "require not just a bilateral agreement between the UK and an independent Scotland, it would require the agreement of all of the other member states as well".

In short -- the details still have to be negotiated. So the only dishonesty here is coming from those who profess to know those as yet unnegotiated details, and are scaremongering about the allegedly detrimental effect of something that might never even be implemented.
09:57 AM on 02/21/2012
Scotland is not in the Schengen agreement.
10:06 AM on 02/21/2012
The Wee King and his band of merry SNP activists would love us to believe that an independent Scotland will be a respected part of the European community and that we will be invited to join all the big players on the world stage.
MolliBlum just quoted the Schengen agreement, Scotland it not in the Schengen and must apply to join it, also answer the question...What border controls will Scotland have if any and Scotlands passports will have to be changed if Scotland decides to go it alone.
So many Questions and so few answers from the Wee King and his merry Clan.
08:25 AM on 02/21/2012
The opt-out means EU citizens are still subject to passport checks at UK borders..... The scots will likely check you actually have a passport, unlike the english. no passport? come on through.. terrrrorist? come on through..
11:20 AM on 02/21/2012
These clowns obviously don't fly around Britain or Europe much. Or they would be more aware of the realities of crossing borders instead of trying to raise scares of 4o years ago.
07:25 AM on 02/21/2012
I agree shame its not along the border , would maybe save our population getting out of hand like englands,
04:43 AM on 02/21/2012
I think passport contols for the Scots is a good idea, they should rebuild the wall as well.
09:33 AM on 02/21/2012
Newcastle to Carlisle? I'm sure the good folk of Northumbria will be delighted at your suggestion! lol
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Allyb999
01:35 PM on 02/21/2012
Wish people would find out where the wall is first, then think about it. Rather than rant off build the wall bigger.
02:57 AM on 02/21/2012
seems like a lot of hassle for an indepent scotland.
11:22 AM on 02/21/2012
Less hasstle than staying in Broken Britain, putting up with the Biased Broadcaster and having your currency and savings steadily eroded by 'quantitative easing' aka sneaky back door devaluation.
01:53 AM on 02/21/2012
Hes making it easer for Scots to decide there future ...keep it up, your doing a great job
10:47 PM on 02/20/2012
The Unionists will not be able to give up negativity and scaremongering.
It has become an ingrained habit and is addictive.

Besides, they have not got the vision, principles, integrity and thinking ability to generate a positive case for the Union and Scotland's positive future in that union if were to survive.

So, we must resign themselves to more of the same.

What the Unionists never realise is that a diet of unmitigated negativity, lies, distortions and scaremongering is not a diet that creates or maintains good relations. So they end up right where they are pointed. the dissolution of the Union and the return to self government by both nations.

And the end result will be perfectly peaceful and uneventful, despite all the scare and doom-mongering.
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10:42 PM on 02/20/2012
One more apparently baseless scare story. It's hard to believe that the best way to persuade Scots to stay in the union is to scare them into it. No positive reasons? Seemingly not. Be as well just declare independence now.
09:20 AM on 02/21/2012
Why is it baseless....you want an independent Scotland but will you have border controls or not...its a simple question and has to be answered !
10:22 AM on 02/21/2012
Will England have border controls? They seem to let anybody and their dog in, without checks. (Ref: T.May's current problems in this respect).

Yes, the question has to be answered, but it cannot be answered unless independence is voted for, it might not be. I am sure negotiations could start now but that would be the distraction that 'unionists' are trying to create, it wouldn't be helpful to anyone, and there are significantly more important things to deal with, e.g. economy, defence, healthcare, welfare, joint assets.

This is just a smokescreen to get the 'little englanders' and the hard of thinking on board.
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10:35 AM on 02/21/2012
Border controls are about as likely as a tory majority in scotland.