Andy Burnham Says Labour Will Continue To Fight The NHS Reforms

Posted: 22/03/2012 11:24 Updated: 22/03/2012 12:44

Andy Burnham is fired up and doesn't have the air of a loser. He's failed in his parliamentary battle to get the Health and Social Care Bill dropped, but Labour's shadow health secretary clearly feels he's on the right side of the argument on NHS reform, and is quickly drawing up plans for how to oppose Andrew Lansley's changes.

HuffPost went to meet Burnham in his Westminster offices on Budget day, about an hour before George Osborne's statement to the Commons. It's a busy office, with half a dozen young, very keen-looking men beavering away. Given the Health and Social Care Bill cleared all its remaining parliamentary hurdles the night before, there could easily have been an air of dejection.

But as I arrived Burnham was finalising the next stage in Labour's opposition, to what will soon no longer be a Bill but an Act of Parliament.

"It's day one," he tells me. "We not hanging around, I want to be clear we're not, like, 'It's all over, we're in the doldrums,' We're going to make this a major local election issue, a major Mayoral election issue. We're going to ask the country to use the local elections to pass a verdict on this Bill."

"Had they dropped the Bill, it probably wouldn't have been in our best political interests, but we still wanted them to do it."

The plan seems to be to encourage everyone in the NHS to "stand out against the logic of the reforms," developing a voluntary protocol which Labour hopes will mean the England-wide, standardised commissioning structure the last government created will continue in spirit, if not in name. It sounds a bit like guerrilla warfare, but Burnham seems keen not to paint it in such an antagonistic light.

"We are developing a Mayoral pledge and protocol, particularly for the big city Mayors, that we're going to launch soon. We're going to ask local councillors to adopt this pledge, and we're going to ask commissioners and providers to sign up to it."

Burnham won't go into the details of what will be in the protocol, due to be announced next week, apparently. But he suggests there will be encouragement from Labour for the new Clinical Commissioning Groups (CCGs) to make the same decisions in future that they would have expected the old Primary Care Trust regime to make.

"It's a very practical thing," says Burnham, although to be honest like everything surrounding the NHS reforms it sounds like a load of management gobbledegook.

Which is why, Burnham believes, it's only really been politicians and those inside the health system who are up in arms about it.

"I think with Welfare reform it impinges upon people in a very direct and immediate way and, with the Health and Social Care Bill I think the government mis-sold it basically. This original vision of Dr Finlay’s casebook with the friendly local GP that arranges all your complex care needs for you wasn’t the issue basically; the issue was the creation of the legal structure of a market.

"I think because of that, it's always suffered from that kind of simplistic selling point that never quite matched up to the Bill and for that reason it has confused people."

Wouldn't it have helped, though, if Labour had been slightly more apocalyptic in its predictions for the NHS, rather than just sounding very ideological about opposing privatisation? Burnham thinks the press dopped the ball.

"I have real concerns about some of the coverage or lack of coverage of the Bill on mainstream broadcast media," he tells me. "I think that fatigue set in,this thing had been going on and on and people were like, 'Oh, that again', but I don’t think the level of prominence that it was getting in the broadcast media reflected the level of concern out in the rest of the country."

But surely Burnham could have been more graphic in his portrayal of what will happen? "The first thing I want to say is that everything is not going to go to hell overnight, I’m not saying that and never have done. But we have responsibility to warn as far as we see it.

"A and E missed its targets 11 weeks on the trot, hospital services are fragile at the moment, there’s temporary closures going on around the country and so as this Bill really begins to bite, let me give you the direct implications as I see them.

"A postcode lottery where you will see real differential standards apply, variation. The Mail last week reported last week that PCTs are beginning to restrict access to various types of surgery based on BMI, and that ain't acceptable as far as I’m concerned. I absolutely fundamentally rejected that as Health Secretary."

(It's a nice image - Whitehall mandarins being told in a thick Lancastrian twang that things "ain't" acceptable)

"I am not going to be sat here in this office waiting for things to go wrong, circling like a vulture and chasing every ambulance. We are going to be working from here to mitigate the worst effects of this Bill," Burnham insists, and you get the feeling that this is not a shadow Cabinet member who hangs around at Westminster.

All the way through our interview he's constantly talking about his constituency - "The practice at Haxby that said it wouldn’t be doing minor operations any more.." is something he throws into a polemic about creeping privatisation and diminishing service.

"I had a woman in my surgery last week telling me that they were going to stop varicose vein treatment, a huge postcode lottery...."

The thing about Burnham is that he doesn't seem like the sort of person who would tire of hearing about his constituents' varicose veins. And there are some MPs that would, very quickly.

So what's the long-term plan? Labour have pledged to reverse Lansley's reforms if they get back into office in 2015. Isn't that just more top-down upheaval for the health service?

"I’m not saying we would do everything anew but we would reverse the legislation," Burnham insists. So would the Primary Care Trusts come back? "I'm not necessarily saying that everything goes back to how it was but what does go back is the basic legal framework that we had, which was an NHS based on planning coordination, cooperation, a national framework for pay and conditions."

But what if Burnham is wrong? What if, actually, the NHS reforms work, patient outcomes improve and money is saved in the process?

"Well, they can all stand there at election time and tell me that I was wrong, and I look forward to the argument about that. I think that the government comprehensively lost this argument, the weight of professional opinion was against it."

And given it takes a couple of years for those kind of trends to become clear, won't the verdict on the NHS reforms come in just before the general election?

Burnham seems to be looking forward to that. "Yeah sure, but it can be measured very easily on patient satisfaction and waiting lists. Those are the barometers and we’ll see whether they are the same as what they inherited."

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Andy Burnham is fired up and doesn't have the air of a loser. He's failed in his parliamentary battle to get the Health and Social Care Bill dropped, but Labour's shadow health secretary clearly feels...
Andy Burnham is fired up and doesn't have the air of a loser. He's failed in his parliamentary battle to get the Health and Social Care Bill dropped, but Labour's shadow health secretary clearly feels...
 
 
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
whapgra
04:09 AM on 03/24/2012
The country is overcrowded ... people are living longer, services are being spread thinner, imigration needs to be curtailed even further before a tipping point is reached and services colapse though lack of funding
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
whapgra
04:04 AM on 03/24/2012
The UK is ovewrcrowded, we have an ever increasing aged population. to keep alowing more immigration is only going to make the situation worse... as the population increases services get spread thinner.
09:13 AM on 03/24/2012
pity this blinkered goverment dont see it that way
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Roger Cottrell
11:33 AM on 03/23/2012
Well we certainly hope so, Andrew, as Labour's not taken much of a lead in defending the NHS so far. At its simplest, the privatization of the National Health Service, which amounts to social terrorism and treason, is the flagship program of the current un-elected government without mandate and must be brought down (together with the government) at all costs. The situation has ben made worse by the fact that Blair's counterfeit Labout government didn't reverse the policy of self governing trusts and continued to afford the private sector a role in health provision which Milliband has also mooted. Not good enough and neither is waiting for an incoming Labour government to reverse privatization - which it won't do. Strikes and direct action are needed. The only guarantee that a future Labour government will deliver progressive measures is if its brought in on a wave of class warfare and the appetite for a scrap is certainly out there - I can't wait for the Olympics to become a televised maelstrom of protest!
08:45 AM on 03/23/2012
The primary problem in the NHS, made worse by Labour, is the organisation is inefficient.

Many areas are grossly overmanned and improperly managed, staff are never disciplined and the most useless are transfered or promoted.

The general publics expectations of the NHS are unrealistic, since it's inception the UK has never really been able to afford it a fact highlighted in recent times by for example it's inability to care for the elderly.
08:41 AM on 03/23/2012
I am suffering from a serious Lung infection and needed an x-ray. The Doctor phoned the hospital to ensure that the x-ray would be examined immediately and he also wanted me to be admitted. The Hospital attitude was absolutely disgraceful. After the X-ray, without it being examined I was told to go and that my Doctor would be given the results in 10 days. In fact they were quite short and extremely rude to me. All I can say is any change that brings about the Medical service realising that they are there for our benefit, not that we are there for their Benefit. I am heartily sick of being treated as an interruption to their day instead of being a part of it.
08:29 AM on 03/23/2012
Here come the tory boys to attack a decent politician, not used to seeing those are you tory boys ???
08:06 AM on 03/23/2012
sad to say the NHS is over budgeted, over staff,far to many managers, job for life culture,many of the staff have difficulty speaking / understanding english. typicle labour they never have a plan.
09:32 PM on 03/22/2012
When the Labour Party gets tired of Spineless Ed and the Load of Balls Andy could be a good choice.
09:11 PM on 03/22/2012
"busy office , half a dozen keen young men beavering away" DOING WHAT ? typical labour overstaffing.
08:40 PM on 03/22/2012
Andy is another another Scargill, take great care.
I owe my life too the NHS, at the same time i urge
NHS staff, too think what they are voting for, he
will be paid when you are not.
wes
09:34 PM on 03/22/2012
Another Scargill - what he is going to tell the truth and fight for his supporters - Never going to happen!
08:28 AM on 03/23/2012
Aint that the truth , Scargill was demonised by the tory presss cos they were scared of the truth and still are
This comment has been removed.
07:56 PM on 03/22/2012
The reforms to the NHS are not for the welfare of the people, just another way to feed the greed by syphoning off tax payers money into the private sector, as has been proved in the past with other publicly owned companies and services.
07:21 PM on 03/22/2012
We need a new Labour leader-someone more attacking and with a bit of spark-I think Andy would be just right.
09:17 PM on 03/22/2012
Yes he would be ,other than the fact labour blew it
the last time round, they will suffer for a decade due too this,
anyone with half a brain anyway.
wes
09:29 PM on 03/22/2012
Or Micheal McIntyre
07:18 PM on 03/22/2012
Well done Andy keep this nasty lot on their toes. More bad news is to come this is just the thin edge of a very brutal and sharp wedge. If the ordinary people accept and tip their hats at the right wing politicians believing they know better we the people will suffer even more.
This comment has been removed.