Scottish Border Checks 'Could Follow Independence' Admits Home Secretary Theresa May

Posted: 25/03/2012 15:08 Updated: 25/03/2012 15:14   PA

Scotland Border

An independent Scotland could see checks introduced at its border with England, Home Secretary Theresa May has said.

May yesterday warned that independence could result in the country's borders being opened up to "mass immigration".

In an interview with BBC Scotland's Sunday Politics programme today, she said there could be a border check if Scotland joined the European Common Travel Area, by signing up to the Schengen Agreement.

She said: "If there was a separate Scotland, there could very well be some sort of border check, but what that would be, to what extent that would be necessary, would depend on the issues about whether Scotland was in Schengen, whether it wanted to be in the Common Travel Area which they would have to negotiate, if that was what they wished to do."

May said such issues needed to be addressed as part of the debate ahead of a referendum on independence, which the SNP wants to hold in the autumn of 2014.

She added: "But the point I'm making is that these are exactly the sorts of issues that it is right to be discussing and should be part of the debate."

At the Scottish Conservative Party conference in Troon yesterday, Ms May warned that if an independent Scotland joined the European Union (EU), it "almost certainly" would not have the UK's opt-out on justice and home affairs matters, and would face joining Europe's Schengen area, which applies to all member states except the UK and Ireland.

The Schengen area operates border controls for the whole area, but there are no internal border checks between countries within the area.

A number of constitutional experts and unionist politicians have warned that Scotland would have to re-apply to Europe if it separated from the UK.

They argue that the rest of the UK would retain the opt-outs it has negotiated over the years, including the right to hold passport checks at the UK border through its opt-out of the Schengen Agreement, but Scotland would not.

Some have argued that this will result in the necessity for passport checks at the Scottish border but the SNP insists it will share the UK's successor status and retain its opt-outs.

The SNP said an independent Scotland would also inherit the Common Travel Area which exists across the UK and Ireland.

May said it could not be assumed that Scotland would be part of the Common Travel Area.

She added: "There is an assumption that it would be but we would need to be talking to Scotland about whether that would be right and about what that would entail."

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01:03 AM on 03/26/2012
I can understand why the SNP would HOPE that an independent Scotland inherits any European Union opt-outs that have been secured by the UK.

But I cannot understand why it would insist that will be the case. Opt-outs will surely need to be renegotiated by an independent Scotland and I can't imagine why the EU would extend those to Scotland.

The EU *might* do such a thing, but why are Scots not telling their SNP leaders to stick to stating facts instead of hopes?
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01:28 AM on 03/26/2012
One would have hoped that the SNP would have been talking informally with the EU to determine the legal situation, and would be well aware of any new requirements.

Whether they have, but aren't saying, is anyone's guess.
03:30 PM on 03/26/2012
It's never a good sign for the SNP to be talking informally with the EU, "but aren't saying." It's not even a good sign for folks to wonder if that's what the SNP is going.

The only good way to embark on a new national destiny is with great transparency and full disclosure.

The SNP ought to either say outright WHO in the EU has promised in writing that an independent Scotland automatically inherits the UK's "opt-outs" - or stop saying that Scotland will inherit those. And tell the Scots frankly that the SNP has no idea what independence will mean with respect to the EU.

I have no opinion on Scottish independence, but I'd hate to see the Scots put too much faith in a party that doesn't believe in transparency and full disclosure.
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tc-byrne
Victoria Concordia Crescit
11:08 PM on 03/25/2012
Anyone noticed there running this same story on two seperate pages.
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beenzrgud
Can't say what I'd like to here.
11:25 PM on 03/25/2012
Now you mention it, that is a bit strange, even for the Huffpost.
02:13 AM on 03/26/2012
this article in response to the Scottish Tory meeting in Troon. I don't think that other article was well in advance of the 'meeting' and could know what Mrs May was going to say, even with the powers that HP has.
02:18 PM on 03/29/2012
That, "Meeting", was actually the Conservative & Unionist Party Scottish Conference. Mr Cameron & Ms May were attempting to rally their own party members. Both of those Wastemonster Tory ministers were blethering tital rubbish.
06:11 PM on 03/25/2012
And rightly so.

England must have border checks with a foreign country. Scots won't be able to just cross the border like they were crossing a street


And I'm sure the reverse would be true.
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rrozy2222
do as you would be done by
08:22 PM on 03/25/2012
Glad you added the last bit
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09:46 PM on 03/25/2012
Well, throughout Europe the border checks are pretty much non-existent these days, so it's quite possible that, within the UK (or should I say "former UK") people could indeed "just cross the border like they were crossing the street" -- as they now do on a daily basis between France and Spain or Germany and the Netherlands, or Luxemburg and Belgium...
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tc-byrne
Victoria Concordia Crescit
09:56 PM on 03/25/2012
Yes Molliblum i am sure that will be the case, but only if border treaties and immigration policies are aligned and put in place by the two goverments, that shouldn't to hard should it.
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beenzrgud
Can't say what I'd like to here.
11:07 PM on 03/25/2012
You're talking about countries that have signed up to the Schengen agreement. The UK has opted out of this agreement.
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05:22 PM on 03/25/2012
Another brick in the wall. Not many would want to work on this border post on the outskirts of the British empire! Unless it is to stop illegal immigrants from claiming benefits and housing!
07:31 PM on 03/25/2012
I've news for you Hank, Britain no longer has an Empire. Scotland will always be part of Britain and when Scotland withdraws from the Treaty of Union, (it was only signed by two equal sovereign countries), there will be no Parliament of the United Kingdom but, as long as we share the same monarch, there will be a United Kingdom. Did you actually think England was the United Kingdom? As a matter of fact the English are immigrants into Britain.
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tc-byrne
Victoria Concordia Crescit
08:28 PM on 03/25/2012
Has a matter of fact Auld Bob the scots were also immigrants into the lands in the north now known as scotland, between the 5thc&8thc scotland was settle by tribes from Ireland (scoti) anglo-saxons, and norsemen, scotland became a nation in the 9thc, the indigenous population the picts faded in to history.
And your right the UK parliament will no longer be the parliament of the UK which could offer up more problems with what ever world treaties that the UK as in place at the moment.
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beenzrgud
Can't say what I'd like to here.
09:37 PM on 03/25/2012
With an attitude like yours I feel sorry for the many Scots who currently live and work in the rest of the UK. It's Scots like you that the rest of us want to get away from. I'm sure that before this saga is over you will have done your very best to burn whatever bridges remain between Scotland and England. I'm sure that by the time people like you have finished there will be no shortage of English volunteers to kick the remaining Scots back over the border.
02:32 PM on 03/29/2012
Indeed, with Scotland's rich natural resources and her far more civil attitudes, like free University education, free prescriptions, a NHS that will never be privitised as in England, long term Council Tax freeze, free home care for the elderly, cheaper property prices and much, much more we have already had many immigrants from England. In fact the largest immigrant population now settled in Scotland came from English born people. However, we do have lots of open land and with around a third of the land area only around 5 million inhabitants we can open our arms to lots more for a good while yet..
06:50 PM on 03/29/2012
Believe me we have had to put up with immigrant scots for centuries. If they all went home we wouldn't have any unemployment. I am fed up with stroppy Jocks and once you have independance we would have to pay out less in benefits to lazy jocks. So please vote YES for independance and we can then rebuild the wall and put a nice big border post to keep you all out of England!
04:35 PM on 03/25/2012
I dont see anything wrong in statements of fact. These are practical issues that need to be sorted, and the Scots should make an informed decision whatever it may be, based on all of the issues.
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02:41 PM on 03/29/2012
The SNP have been doing just that since before WWII. We have had a long time to sort these things out. In fact there are Scottish Govenment White Papers published as far back as 2009 with many detailed facts.
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/News/Speeches/Speeches/First-Minister/whitepaper
You had better believe that the SG proceed in a far more professional manner that the fragmented and utterly stupid way such as Cameron and May have been spouting of late.
thephuqqer
not the chicken plucker.
04:35 PM on 03/25/2012
'There's nothing like lies and propaganda to foment consternation'..........Joseph Goebells.
04:41 PM on 03/25/2012
wise words indeed
02:20 AM on 03/26/2012
and those words could have been the mantra of Slamond too.
02:51 PM on 03/29/2012
Utter rubbish. In the first place the SNP are a really democratic party. Alex Salmond is only the elected leader and he wouldn't last a moment if he made any attempt at dictatorship. The Wastemonster parties are all corrupt and a leader, once installed, is a virtual dictator. The SNP are not in thrall to the Unions or to big business to raise funds but depend only upon the members for funds. No one buys the SNP's influance in any way. As Trump found out when he though he had Salmond in his pocket. Brian Souter donated but was made well aware his donation bought him no special favours and Murdoch was given that same treatment althoug he has donated nothing.
04:25 PM on 03/25/2012
Amazing how any talk of independence for Scotland is immediately met with threats. Looks at London is running scared of loosing its all that lovely Scottish money that subsidises their pay and transport.
04:38 PM on 03/25/2012
Whats threatening about a practical statement of fact? If Scotland votes for independence (and its up to them) they are no longer part of the UK. Its really quite simple. Border control between different nations is perfectly common in the World.
08:19 PM on 03/25/2012
No, Harry, Only two countries signed, "The Treaty Of Union", that created, "The Parliament of the United Kingdom", in 1707. That was 103 years after the, "Union Of The Crowns", in 1603. So when one of two countries leaves there is no United Kingdom Parliament. I keep explaining this but it seems to woosh over most English heads. James VI, King of Scot became King of England but the English crown also included the Princedom of Wales and kingdom of Ireland. The monarch is Sovereign in England, Wales & Ireland and a sovereign monarch rules by sovereign right. Thus all three countries just automatically came under English rule and law. However the monarch is not sovereign in Scotland because the people are. The monarch is,the protector of the people's sovereignty and English law does not apply in Scotland. So, to have only one parliament, there had to be a treaty between ONLY Scotland & England to form a Parliament of the United Kingdom. So when we leave there is no more United Kingdom Parliament.
03:14 AM on 03/26/2012
You don't see the Scottish government saying "Scottish oil well nationalisation could follow independence." Why because that kind of conjecture like the confrontational point on border posts cant be described as constructive.
06:11 PM on 03/25/2012
It's not a threat, but a fact that would arise with Scotland being a seperate country.
08:26 PM on 03/25/2012
Err! No! To seperate something you must pull it physically apart and you cannot pull England away from Scotland. We will only be a country that is independent of England. As I've already explained there will be no remaining Parliament of the United KIngdom as it was instigated by a treaty between only Scotland & England. If Scotland tears up the treaty then there is no UK parliament. Just as there was no joint parliament between 1603 and 1707 while we still had the same person as our respective monarch.
10:12 PM on 03/25/2012
Not being funny but Ireland has no such borders with the UK. Scotland will fall into exactly the same category. Any questions about their membership for the EU is all hyperbole.
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03:58 PM on 03/25/2012
"...she added: "But the point I'm making is that these are exactly the sorts of issues that it is right to be discussing and should be part of the debate."..."

As, indeed, they should be.
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03:16 PM on 03/29/2012
The SNP Scottish Government published a White Paper on Independence in 2009 and informed Wastemonster. They paid it no mind - that was/is the way they should have used to open debate. Just as the SG still have a consultation open to debate the independence issues but Wastemonster chose to ignore it and open their own. It got a small fraction of the replies that the SG consultation has and the Wastemonster consultation is now closed.

You should still be able to have your say on the matter here -
http://www.scotreferendum.com/2012/01/25/launch-of-the-referendum-consultation/#disqus_thread