The path to a more hopeful and healthy future also requires people of faith and goodwill to speak out clearly and directly against extremists of all stripes.
As you'll see: the Spectator is challenging this story on the basis of three articles. Of these, the first listed is an article that does not claim to address Breivik's ideology and actions directly - it is a blog post about the ease with which relatively minor issues can become Internet conspiracies. The second is a purely informational post in the first minutes after the incidents occurred. Anyone who follows the link will realise that, as the details of the incident are still uncertain. The third is an essay published today, 28 July, in the magazine, days after this post was published and nearly a week after the massacre. So I stand by my point that the main writers on the Spectator, the leading conservative publication in the UK, have not apparently seen a need to blog on this issue.
hp_blogger_Charles Delalande: As you'll see: the Spectator is challenging this story on
I think the problem is that Breivik is still classed as a lone gunman rather than a terrorist since he doesn't seem to have any co-conspirators. It's easy to dismiss a lone gunman's reasoning as irrelevant since its probable that they're insane. Having said that his public persona of an "ordinary polite descent sort" does fit with the profile of the 7/7 bombers.
Also don't rule out Boris Johnson trying to play this down for the greater good. Turning Breivik into some kind of anti-immigration Martyr could inspire a terrorist campaign targeting Muslims and politicians that plays right into his hands. Fortunately Breivik has somewhat prevented that by targeting children but it's still better to play up the sad loner angle driven by personal jealousy rather than suggest he was inspired by a "noble" cause.
ceorlic: I think the problem is that Breivik is still classed
There have been many "lone gunman" Muslim terrorists who don't seem to have had any conspirators, and yet which produced no end of online speculation about the responsibility of the Muslim world, mindset, culture and/or religion for breeding such terrorists.
So the distinction still stands.
ElBruce: There have been many "lone gunman" Muslim terrorists who don't
The usual response from right wing commentators when someone commits an atrocity based on right wing ideology is denial. So the reason they are silent is that Breivik based his acts on their ideology.
No-one should be surprised when whipping up the politics of hatred leads to violent acts, regardless of whether the origin is right-wing or left-wing politics, or religious fundamentalism.
foto2021: The usual response from right wing commentators when someone commits
Maybe they're just scratching around for a justification of this atrocity, because there is nothing more right than their right wing views and they couldn't possibly be wrong....could they?
MamaJoe: Maybe they're just scratching around for a justification of this
All religions, but particularly Islam can be used for political or other means to an end.
There are many millions of Muslims living in poor countries where there is little or no education. It is therefore so easy to present an adulterated version of the Koran to suit those intent on wrongdoing.
The pastor in the Southern states who proclaimed he was going to burn the Koran is another example of attracting a ridiculous amount of publicity by using religion for his own ends. There are many other strange offshoots of Christianity that have sprung up in the mid-west of the US.
Boris is in no position to judge what was going on inside the head of Brievik. What we can say is that he was likely to have been weaned from an early age into right wing fundamentalist thinking, or there is some sort of mental health problem or of course he could have had psychopathic tendencies. He may even have had elements of all three. A truly shocking tragedy and waste of young people's lives.
Where did this man's hatred of Islam originate from? This is the primary question to be answered.
digdeeper: All religions, but particularly Islam can be used for political
"Where did this man's hatred of Islam originate from? This is the primary question to be answered."
Exactly right. And one possibly answer will that his hatred stems from a mainstream cultural conservative consensus which says that Islam and the West ultimately cannot coexist. I genuinely don't know whether that is enough of an answer in itself - another answer might be that it comes from militant Islam that seeks to provoke its 'opponents' into reacting. But that's why I want to hear from those who do appear to see Islam as a threat, even if they (of course) would utterly condemn Breivik's actions.
hp_blogger_Charles Delalande: "Where did this man's hatred of Islam originate from? This
Boris Johnson, Melanie Phillips, The Spectator, Standpoint, Douglas Murray...if this was meant to be an attack on right wing bloggers the author should probably have tried reading some right wing *blogs* rather than the Telegraph, the Mail, two magazines and an author/think tanker. Had you read some bloggers, you'd have found plenty of comment.
They did not do it for me. The first takes the view that neo-nazis are anti-intellectual lower class thugs and nothing else. Nazi organizations, original and present have been dominated by that type but not to the exclusion of intellectuals devoted to the protections of European, Christian civilization.
Breivik typifies a less common type of neo-nazi. Nothing new there.
The Cranmer blog plays around with language and definitions like an Anglican at a theology summer school on semantics. It is a weak piece which proves or establishes zilch. Breivik is a neo-nazi, driven by notions of Christian civilization. perhaps calling him ''a Christian fundamentalist terrorist'' is a little wide of the mark, but no less so than many of the usages of ''Islamic'' before ''terrorist.''
Cranmer's second paragraph, dealing with religious fundamentalism makes mention of Islam, Sikhism and Hinduism but not Christianity or Judaism. Mmm.
eric14: They did not do it for me. The first takes
Presumably anyone who posts a blog is a blogger. You're right - Boris is a journo politician although his work is endlessly discussed in the blogosphere. The other people and institutions I've cited are either regular bloggers themselves or important forums for a certain type of blogging. I've read plenty of other bloggers, but focused on those that reach out beyond the narrow cyber community into the public consciousness - the ones with most influence.
This isn't "meant to be an attack on right wing bloggers", it's a serious question about why there seems to be a reluctance to enter this debate among the highest profile thinkers and publications. The events in Norway appear to directly speak to these people's top concerns, but they have no reaction.
hp_blogger_Charles Delalande: Presumably anyone who posts a blog is a blogger. You're
- You want to learn about what it is check: Jan Allen McDaniel comments.
Egyptian Coptic Bishop Warns Europe About The Dangers Of Islam
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c59_1306860066
Also don't rule out Boris Johnson trying to play this down for the greater good. Turning Breivik into some kind of anti-immigration Martyr could inspire a terrorist campaign targeting Muslims and politicians that plays right into his hands. Fortunately Breivik has somewhat prevented that by targeting children but it's still better to play up the sad loner angle driven by personal jealousy rather than suggest he was inspired by a "noble" cause.
So the distinction still stands.
http://www.democracynow.org/2011/7/27/norwegian_shooting_suspects_views_echo_xenophobia
No-one should be surprised when whipping up the politics of hatred leads to violent acts, regardless of whether the origin is right-wing or left-wing politics, or religious fundamentalism.
There are many millions of Muslims living in poor countries where there is little or no education. It is therefore so easy to present an adulterated version of the Koran to suit those intent on wrongdoing.
The pastor in the Southern states who proclaimed he was going to burn the Koran is another example of attracting a ridiculous amount of publicity by using religion for his own ends. There are many other strange offshoots of Christianity that have sprung up in the mid-west of the US.
Boris is in no position to judge what was going on inside the head of Brievik. What we can say is that he was likely to have been weaned from an early age into right wing fundamentalist thinking, or there is some sort of mental health problem or of course he could have had psychopathic tendencies. He may even have had elements of all three. A truly shocking tragedy and waste of young people's lives.
Where did this man's hatred of Islam originate from? This is the primary question to be answered.
Exactly right. And one possibly answer will that his hatred stems from a mainstream cultural conservative consensus which says that Islam and the West ultimately cannot coexist. I genuinely don't know whether that is enough of an answer in itself - another answer might be that it comes from militant Islam that seeks to provoke its 'opponents' into reacting. But that's why I want to hear from those who do appear to see Islam as a threat, even if they (of course) would utterly condemn Breivik's actions.
For example:
http://www.crashbangwallace.com/2011/07/25/to-fight-breiviks-views-we-need-to-understand-this-new-distinct-extremism/
http://archbishop-cranmer.blogspot.com/2011/07/on-christian-fundamentalism.html
Breivik typifies a less common type of neo-nazi. Nothing new there.
The Cranmer blog plays around with language and definitions like an Anglican at a theology summer school on semantics. It is a weak piece which proves or establishes zilch. Breivik is a neo-nazi, driven by notions of Christian civilization. perhaps calling him ''a Christian fundamentalist terrorist'' is a little wide of the mark, but no less so than many of the usages of ''Islamic'' before ''terrorist.''
Cranmer's second paragraph, dealing with religious fundamentalism makes mention of Islam, Sikhism and Hinduism but not Christianity or Judaism. Mmm.
This isn't "meant to be an attack on right wing bloggers", it's a serious question about why there seems to be a reluctance to enter this debate among the highest profile thinkers and publications. The events in Norway appear to directly speak to these people's top concerns, but they have no reaction.