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Is it Possible for a Sane Person to Commit Mass Murder?

Posted: 07/05/2012 00:00

In the 19th Century, journalist and barrister Walter Bagehot attempted to describe the concept of public opinion by giving a description of a man on a bus; an idea that was later taken up by the courts in order to better characterise the opinion and actions of a 'reasonable person'. This person, known as 'The Man on the Clapham Omnibus' can be a useful way to approach legal and ethical dilemmas.

What might the man (or woman) on the Clapham omnibus make of the case of Anders Behring Breivik, currently on trial for the killing of 77 people in Oslo and Utøya in July 2011?

After a week of detailed and harrowing testimony from Breivik, there might be many a reasonable view expressed on public transport. Some might argue that Breivik must have been sane to have organized and carried out a crime of that scale with such chilling accuracy and without getting found out. Others might question how any sane person could to do such a thing in the first place, especially hearing his reasons for doing so.

These common sense observations highlight the challenge facing the Norwegian court that has to decide on Breivik's sanity in the coming weeks. The topic has been the subject of intense media coverage, which increased with reports that a second psychiatric assessment had deemed Breivik sane. This contradicts the initial evaluation by court-appointed psychiatrists which reportedly found that he was suffering from psychosis, rendering him insane. The experts do not agree, and the issue will fall to the court to decide - but decide on what, exactly?

An understanding of the law on insanity is key to understanding what will take place in court. This is because the court is asked to decide not whether Breivik is mentally ill, but rather whether he is legally insane, which is a different question.

In England, the insanity law sets out very specific criteria, the M'Naghten rules, that must be met if a person who is mentally ill is not to be held responsible for his or her actions. To be deemed legally insane, the person, because of a disease of the mind, must not know the nature or quality of the act, or must not know that what he or she was doing was wrong. In real terms, this means that the accused would have to prove to the jury that they did not realize, at the time of the crime, what they were physically doing or did not know that it was against the law. This can be difficult to prove, even for a defendant who has psychotic symptoms which distort their view of reality. If proven, the court finds the defendant not guilty by reason of insanity: they are not held criminally responsible for what they did.

Because of these strict rules, many defendants who have a mental illness do not reach the legal test of insanity, and it is a rare defence in English law. Their mental health problems can be taken into account in other ways, but they are still held at least partially responsible for their crimes. Based on reports of his testimony so far, it appears very unlikely that Breivik's legal sanity would be in question if the English insanity law applied to him.

In Norway, however, the General Civil Penal Code states that 'a person who was psychotic or unconscious at the time of committing the act shall not be liable to a penalty'. This wording, in contrast to the English law, does not make specific reference to the person's knowledge or understanding of their criminal act, but rather asks whether the person was psychotic. This legal definition potentially includes many more people than the English definition, and helps to explains why Breivik's sanity is in question in Norway when it likely wouldn't be in England.

So where does this leave the first of the reasonable views expressed on the Clapham omnibus: that the crime was too well organized and concealed to be carried out by an insane man? In an English court, evidence of concealment and planning could well be used to prove the person did know the meaning of their actions, helping to rule out legal insanity. The same evidence may not necessarily rule out legal insanity in Norway.

And what about the second view: questioning whether any sane person could commit such a crime? We must remember that in the eyes of the law an insane person is someone who, on account of their mental illness, did not know the meaning of their actions, and should not be liable to punishment. If the question of sanity is viewed within these legal terms, the Man on the Clapham Omnibus might then be able to accept that it is entirely possible for a sane person to commit mass murder, and would be grateful that it is not he who has the responsibility of deciding this issue in the case of Anders Behring Breivik.

 
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In the 19th Century, journalist and barrister Walter Bagehot attempted to describe the concept of public opinion by giving a description of a man on a bus; an idea that was later taken up by the court...
In the 19th Century, journalist and barrister Walter Bagehot attempted to describe the concept of public opinion by giving a description of a man on a bus; an idea that was later taken up by the court...
 
 
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02:09 PM on 05/08/2012
Is it Possible for a Sane Person to Commit Mass Murder?
Short answer is Yes. Most of them are perpetrated by sane persons anyway. It is just that after itis difficoult to explain and it is in the human nature to dismiss such acts as the acts of the madmen rather to come to terms with rather frightning fact that with proper conditioning most of the poeple can act in this way. For example Holocaust and the "anti-partisan" clensing of the wast areas of entire populations in the east front (and yugoslavia) was done by quite normal and rational poeple in uniform (SS and Wehrmacht). Same with countless large scale massacers in the China perpetrated by Imperial Japanese Army (Nanjing being the most infamous case). Not to mention crusades. It all depends about logic used behind the act. Armies rely on this kind of logical thinking (us against them) and herd/pack metality but rarely carry it that far intentionally. Same with suicide/kamikaze attacks (logic brought to the envitable end).
This is achived quite easily. Basic formula for this is used from at least from antiquity:
1. conditioning of soldiers/individuals/population in us against them (just check the media these days)
2. bring in racism and step up us against the rationale (Fox, Hasbara being the prime examples these days)
3. if you can bring in religion argument against your enemy so much the better (Fox and multitude of religious nuts on the net)
Pauline Jaing
Artist, worker, mother
12:24 PM on 05/08/2012
Well, if he is insane, then you have a lot of people in the US who are exactly the same, and they are organized, they are dispatched from their pro life churches, and lately, I have observed that they are mobbing others, systematically demonizing people.

How long before the murders of doctors providing abortions goes to the murder of people politically supporting abortions? They won't kill the mother due to the "innocent" "child" in the womb, but they will kill everyone else.
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iLdoRight
Encouraging The Rightest Rightness
06:54 AM on 05/08/2012
How many abortions can a sane doctor do for reasons other than to prevent the certain death of mother ?
08:19 AM on 05/08/2012
One sane doctor can do tens of thousands of abortions for whatever reason the woman who is pregnant gives. And how many reasons can a religulous person give for opposing single payer health care which will permit the poor of the world's wealthiest nation to be well fed, well housed and well educated? Tens of thousands. Remember the woman who killed her five children. Fanatical Christian beliefs prevented her from being aborted or using birth control despite the pleas of her doctors. But she did deliver five healthy babies and what else do the religulous want. certainly not ensuring they live full and rewarding lives because that is "communism" or socialism" or whatever.
Pauline Jaing
Artist, worker, mother
12:13 PM on 05/08/2012
Get out of my womb. No one is forcing you to get an abortion.
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Manchurian
With Liberty and Justice for All
12:21 AM on 05/08/2012
There are still those among us who have started illegal, immoral wars that predictably resulted in the unnecessary deaths of tens if not hundreds of thousands of our fellow human beings. These politicians are not considered insane, but they are certainly personally responsible for the horrific deaths of untold numbers of people. In the end, the motivation for mass murder is often matter of morality, not sanity.
12:13 AM on 05/08/2012
Were the Nazis insane? No. Is Sarah Palin insane? No. Are the birthers insane? No. Were the men who hijacked four passenger planes and flew them into the Twin towers insane? No. Were the passengers who wrested control of one of the four planes from one set of hijackers insane. No. Insanity is when an individuals actions are senseless - Is the pope insane? No. Most of the world operate on beliefs. They believe in their beliefs though clearly there is no evidence to substantiate their beliefs and actions. They believe people who don't believe as they do are a threat. I, personally, saw Rick Santorum as a threat to the seperation of the state and religion. He felt justified in trying to impose his beliefs upon others. Rick Santorum was not insane nor were the people who voted for him. People who are willing to kill masses of other people are no more insane than those who bow down and worship and obey anybody who says he knows what a non existent god wants people to do and that is too have more children and indoctrinate them in the same belief.
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SGillLondonUK
SCOTLAND IS NOT ENGLISH PROPERTY
12:02 AM on 05/08/2012
This article is completely contrived..."Is it Possible for a Sane Person to Commit Mass Murder?"
What about people who commit one murder, are they less likely to be insane than somebody who kills ten people. Im not a psychiatrist, and i do not know how the human mind works, but as far as i am aware, murder is murder, whether it is 1 or a 100.
10:29 PM on 05/07/2012
"Everyone has this problem, his inner Ahab, his monomania, whose means are sane, but whose motive and object are mad. Resentment that strives to get even, that inflichts one hurt for another, that asserts one's personal power over anything that challenges it, or that withdraws in sullen, wounded majesty, disdaining to communicate with a world that doesn't recognize its sovereignity." Edinger.
"Ahab, had committed his life to destroying rather than creating. He had chosen death over life. His unresolved resentment and rage had turned demonic...all around him were obliterated by his bitterness," p. 271-2, Anger, Madness, and the Daimonic--Diamond.
08:12 AM on 05/13/2012
Only the wounded physician can hope to heal.
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Philip J Sparrow
When your work speaks for itself, keep quiet
09:16 PM on 05/07/2012
The same question was raised by philosopher and journalist Hannah Arendt during the trial in Israel of Adolf Eichmann for his role in the Holocaust. Her conclusion was that sanity or otherwise isn't the issue, it is the capacity for moral deliberation and reflection. Eichmann was characterised as 'unthinking' and 'banal' in the sense that he considered any order from a superior to represent not only absolute law but also the paradigm of morality.

Breivik, on the other hand, is apparently quite intelligent and operated alone. He had the ability to assess the morality of his actions and their consequences.
11:37 PM on 05/07/2012
Hannah Arendt's reference is most appropriate, though you are too quick to pin her observation of Eichmann's 'banality' on trusting 'order from a superior' as a substitute paradigm of morality.

Hannah Arendt also marked how mass murderer find lies more plausible, more appealing to reason than reality. Anders Breivik' intelligence allowed him to rationalize every step of the way towards the elaborate preparation for the crime. He knew or anticipated perfectly well what the consequences of those actions would be.

Where or how do we place the borderline between a psychopath and a sane criminal?
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Richard Pearce
Atheistic-agnostic Canadian polymath
04:12 PM on 05/07/2012
Perhaps the best way of countering the notion that the insane MUST be disorganized comes in the form of an urban legend. The story is set in the days before cell phones, and goes 'A man was driving past an isolated insane asylum when he got a flat tire. As he started changing it for the spare, he noticed that some of the patients were watching him intently, and, seeing as he was far from the building, and isolated, he began to get more and more nervous as he went through the process. As he was wrestling the spare into place, he was so nervous he dropped it, and it hit the hubcap where he had carefully placed the nuts, flinging the nuts into the undergrowth. After a while of searching for them and not finding them, he was preparing to start the long walk to the building when one of those inside the fence spoke up. 'Why don't you take one nut off of each of the other wheels and use that to get you to town?' Realizing that would work, he did just that, and on his way back, stopped off at the building to offer his thanks to the guard who had spoken. But, when he told the person at the desk what had happened, they told him there hadn't been any guards in that area at the time, and explained to the man that the patients were there because they were insane, not stupid.
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Richard Pearce
Atheistic-agnostic Canadian polymath
04:36 PM on 05/07/2012
The point I am trying to make is that someone with an irrational/insane belief system can, unless that belief system prevents them from dealing with daily life, can see what they believe to be a threat, come up with a plan to eliminate that threat, and even carry out that plan. The only thing that makes the plan (and the person behind the plan) insane is that the vast majority of the society either does not see the same thing as a threat, or sees the planned remedy to be well out of proportion to that threat.
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blutopie
no longer 'chosen'
03:47 PM on 05/07/2012
Israeli PM Bibi Netanyahu is using the same messianic Islamophobic arguments that Anders used, wanting to do to Iran what Anders did to Norweigens who support Palestine

Even the entire top echelon of Israel (Dagan, Diskin, Gantz, and Olmert) realizes this and calls Netanyahu a messianic hoaxer, trying to hoax the US into a war on Iran based on fairy tales fabricated by the Israelis themselves.

Netanyahu unstable? - certainly, but very conscious and cynical at the same time

Just like the IDF was just caught yesterday - sending plainclothes IDF into Palestinian demonstrations and attacking the IDF, so the IDF can sanction violence against the real Palestinians there.

Writ large this is the same Israeli set up and con game they have pulled on the world over Palestine for years - that instead of the Israelis being 'state terrorists' and conducting ethnic cleansing for Palestine for years, and now currently running a transparent Apartheid control over Palestine, that surprise, it is the Israelis who are the actual victims

Clinical? - indeed...

'Undercover Israeli combatants threw stones at IDF soldiers in West Bank'
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/undercover-israeli-combatants-threw-stones-at-idf-soldiers-in-west-bank-1.428584
03:18 PM on 05/07/2012
I define sanity to myself as anything healthy and pro survival.Madness must then be anything anti survival.Since "Many hands make light work"surely we need everyone in order to survive so killing others is anti survival to yourself and them...
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Richard Pearce
Atheistic-agnostic Canadian polymath
04:59 PM on 05/07/2012
Do you see the criminalization of possession of cocaine sane or insane? How about marijauna? Alcohol? How about doctors deciding when to stop efforts to sustain a patient with no heartbeat? No functioning lungs? No functioning kidneys? Would killing ABB because you could not capture/stop him while he was actively shooting be a sane act in your definition? Would killing him because you could not capture/stop him as he was on his way to shoot/bomb meet your definition of sanity? Would killing him because you could not capture/stop him as he gathered the material he needed to carry out his plan meet that definition? Would killing the people who legitimized and fostered his irrational belief because you could not capture/stop them meet your definition of sanity? Finding the line between distasteful and insane thoughts and actions is as hard as finding the line between eroticism and pornography, at the fringes, a wide degree of consensus is easy to find, but that concensus disappears quickly as you move away from the fringe, even though the real and perceived need to define which side of the line something is on is greater the closer you get to the middle.
11:42 AM on 05/11/2012
Dunno,I'm A Budhist....
03:06 PM on 05/07/2012
The question is, what IS normal? One persons normal, is another persons abnormal. What is normal!
02:19 PM on 05/07/2012
Sure, if the person is religious.
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Nathan0316
TrueBlueTory Age quod agis
02:10 PM on 05/07/2012
I think it's possible to commit mass murder while being sane, but that it's unusual to do it in one incident like this. What I mean is, during war-time especially, people build up to it, the way the Nazi's did, It's odd in the extreme to go straight to killing 77 people even on ideological grounds. Whatever profusion of language is around ("I'll kill him for that", "I'd kill for a burger", "I'll kill you" etc etc) taking a human life is nowhere as easy as a lot of people think. Whether he's sane or not, I would suggest taking a long hard look at Breivik's past as it wouldn't surprise me if there were some unexplained disappearance's or death's there.

And on a very simple note, does it really matter if he's sane or not? He's admitted his guilt, surely locking him away for life is the only option anyway?
10:36 PM on 05/07/2012
Yes, but even during peace time, the extremists/paranoids/insane, really whatever you want to call them, come up with all sort of strange conspiracies in their heads, say, the worry that Jews are planning a major world domination and aim to eliminate anyone coming in their way in the process in a case of an extremist anti semitic militant for example. This individual would struggle to understand why the rest of the world is failing to see this "reality" and consider them as ignorant. They would see it as their personal duty to "retaliate" and "protect" themselves and everyone else. To them they are normal and everyone else is blind and abnormal.
02:03 PM on 05/07/2012
The article throws up quite a lot of issues. The first: is the mass murderer a product of nature or nurture? For me this is the most difficult question and is a real debating point amongst those of us that have read "We need to talk About Kevin" The book rather than the film, stimulates discussion on this point. I like to think that it is a product of both. Like because the thought of inherently evil people is scary. The second is the treatment of Breivik on the courts and the whole issue of whether or not revenge is part of the prison system. This is discussed in the following article by a Forensic Phycologist and is worth reading. http://www.silverlinksnetwork.com/news-a-politics/57-norwegian-justice