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Henry C.H. Hill

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No Need for a Post-Union Jack

Posted: 18/09/2012 00:00

At some point in 2014, Scotland is going to hold a referendum on whether or not to dissolve her three-century union with the rest of the United Kingdom.

I'm personally opposed to this development, and moreover I think it unlikely to happen. Of course there are others, either pessimists or pragmatists, who like to dwell upon the possible consequences of Scottish secession. Amongst the many serious points surrounding our economy, defence capability, global standing and Security Council seat, one seemingly trivial problem has caught my attention.

If Scotland left the UK, what would happen to our flag?

For any readers unfamiliar with the genesis of the Union Flag (as pedants will insist we call it), here is a potted history: The flags of England and Scotland were combined by James I & VI as a royal banner in 1606, becoming the ensign of the Kingdom of Great Britain upon its formation 101 years later. The arms of Ireland were added during the latter years of the Interregnum of 1649-60, before the Saint Patrick's Saltire was added to represent Ireland at its accession to the Union in 1801.

Given the manner of its creation, the concerns surrounding the fate of the Union Jack are understandable. They are also far from new, with similar concerns being expressed during the build-up to Southern Ireland's independence in 1921-22. Indeed, Prime Minister of Northern Ireland Sir James Craig said at the time that he was "glad to think that our decision [to opt back into the United Kingdom] will obviate the necessity of mutilating the Union Jack."

So if Scotland does go her own way, what ought we do to the flag? In my view, absolutely nothing.

It strikes me as a little strange that much contemporary debate around the future of the Union Jack, whether related to the prospect of Scottish independence or not, revolves around a strikingly literalist interpretation of it. The various nations that contributed aspects of their banners to create it - England, Scotland and Ireland - are somehow assumed to have retained possession of different bits sections of it.

Thus when Scottish secession is considered, a lot of people seem to assume that they could walk off with all the blue in the Union Jack, because that blue, originally donated by Scotland, is somehow Scotland's possession. In similar vein, people look at how the flag was created and note that no Welsh flag is present (that only being adopted in 1959), and conclude that it does not therefore represent Welsh people. There has even been an attempt - happily unsuccessful - to interpret the flag racially.

All of this, I think, entirely misses the point of the union. Much like the country itself, the Union Jack is much more than the sum of its parts. Over time it has come to represent not an old alliance between the English and the Scots, but 'the British', a distinct product of three centuries of cooperative growth and immigration entirely distinct from the two nations that originally created their state.

The British include great numbers of English, Scots, and Irish of course, but many more besides, not least the Welsh. But there are a great number of Britons who hail, or whose ancestors hail, from different countries and continents altogether, and these people often identify more strongly with Britain than their native-born neighbours. Does anybody seriously subscribe to the notion that an immigrant of Pakistani or Jamaican descent, who counts themselves British, is 'unrepresented' by the flag unless some element of the Pakistani or Jamaican flag was added to it?

This country belongs to all of the British, rather than the home nations, and the Jack, in its undivided entirety, is the flag of the British. We should never confuse the process of its design - contributions from different national flags - with what it represents today.

Yet if you are committed to a literalist interpretation of the flag, consider this. If Scotland were to leave, the country the Union Jack represents will still exist. Notwithstanding the technical truth of the statement (Wales and Northern Ireland won't have gone anywhere), a vote to secede will not erase the three centuries of Scottish contributions to the development of Britain. Generations of Scots have been loyal and often enthusiastic participants in the great projects of union and empire, and we who will remain in 'rUK' will still be the richer for their having been our one-time countrymen and women.

In 2014 Scotland will hold a ballot, but it will only be on its own future, not that of Britain. If she chooses to secede the UK will be smaller. But the British will still exist, and while they do the Union Flag should fly.

 

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At some point in 2014, Scotland is going to hold a referendum on whether or not to dissolve her three-century union with the rest of the United Kingdom. I'm personally opposed to this development, an...
At some point in 2014, Scotland is going to hold a referendum on whether or not to dissolve her three-century union with the rest of the United Kingdom. I'm personally opposed to this development, an...
 
 
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02:10 PM on 10/06/2012
Interesting that no-one seems to understand the difference between secession and dissolving a union - nor, for that natter - the nature of the United Kingdom. The UK was formed from the union of two - and only two - parties; the Kingdoms of England and Scotland. Neither Wales nor Ireland were parties to the treaty. In the event of a 'yes' vote in 2014, there will be no 'United Kingdom' as founded in 1707 and neither part of the former United Kingdom will have greater rights than the other. Of course each can choose what their flag will be, though a St. Andrews flag for Scotland seems pretty likely. Equally, the people of England may want to have the St. George's Cross...and why not?
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DJPotterWriter
10:24 PM on 09/19/2012
I agree with this article. Besides, the flag, though of symbolic importance, is one of the least practically important issues. So much is unknown about how an independent Scotland would operate. I hope all these issues are resolved before the referendum, but I doubt it.
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Seaniebhoy
06:29 PM on 09/19/2012
The UK and Scotland now has the taste of a bad marriage...and borders on an abusive relationship...Scots say they fancy going their own way and forging a Scottish destiny without being tied up in the political interests of London...UK Unionists respond - not with kind words encouraging Scotland to stay but rather something more like "you'll be sorry!"..."You lot are nothing without us!" and the usual "don't come crawling back when you need help".
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Ben Wilson
12:00 PM on 09/19/2012
Why should we get rid of the Blue in the Scots leave? Salmonds plan isn't exactly a departure, it's more like when your parents build an extension on their home for their children to move into. They don't want to give up much at all. It's devolution with just more control over cash, but they of course still want use of our kitchen and bathroom.
07:02 AM on 09/19/2012
Leave and take Camoron with you!
12:29 AM on 09/19/2012
"Pedant" raises its ugly head once more. Coincidence? This is only a small voice crying in the wilderness, but here goes. Should there be a majority vote for an independent Scotland, Then they should be allowed to go. I do not agree with this "additional" devolved powers. It's just like a grown-up wanting to leave home but also want to return with his dirty laundry. If on the other hand Scotland is dead set on leaving, any attempt to prevent it will only result in not one but two warring factions along our borders. At the moment we have a onesided situation where Scotland can afford subsidised services for its students, children and the sick. What are we doing wrong down here in the south?
06:39 AM on 09/19/2012
"What are we doing wrong down here in the south? " - paying for them across the border. And we will continue to do so. If Scotland secedes we will still be paying for their defence for instance - though "defence against what" comes to mind! If they leave the Union they should be expected to pay for ALL aspects of running a country. We once "owned" parts of France but we don't pay them.
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hearthammer
If left is right and right is wrong, decide!
10:38 AM on 09/19/2012
You really need to get an education!
12:00 PM on 09/19/2012
bdvc.
The only factual remark you make in your comment is `defense against what?`
The UK government operates an `offense` budget, which is exremely expensive.
I believe that the Scottish govenment would not involve Scotland in expensive foreign wars, in oil producing countries,allegedly to protect `human rights` and cetainly not while attempting to remove every right form the people of Scotland, as the UK government does . Here, we simply have a devolved government , that works for the people that voted them into power. It is not rocket science.
Westminster has more knowledge than they impart to you . England does not subsidise Scotland, Why do you think they are against us leaving the Union .? Love of the Scots .? Or loss of revenue to the treasury ?
PS. We fully expect to pay for all aspects of running a country. with priorities based on the welfare of the people of the same country. The SNP, would only run it in a slightly different, and in my opinion, and many more, a better way, than Westminster.
11:28 PM on 09/18/2012
The thing about national identities and pride is that they're usually based on rather thin concepts and often rather a lot of nonsense . . . and yet they're still necessary to give us a sense of place and the political unions they forge are useful to govern. Still, I hate that they become the centrepiece of such arguments, with talking points that are mostly a load of hot air and with so little wider perspective.
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09:24 PM on 09/18/2012
If I'm not mistaken didn't England buy Scotland after Scotland went bankrupt after trying to colonise Panama in 1690's ( new Inverness ) which was already occupied by the Spanish, If so surly you should have to buy it back.
09:59 PM on 09/18/2012
my reply to you has obviously been knocked back, it had a reference to a web site. Suggest you google Union of Parliaments 1707
07:35 AM on 09/19/2012
Yes just read it, agreed to combine because scotland needed financial support, doesnt say why but I believe it was due to the Panama escapade when scotland borrowed money to finance it, and when the spanish kicked them out the country became pennyless.
12:17 PM on 09/19/2012
bradjohn9.

You must be one of professor Starkeys history.students.
That is about as believable as the collective amnesia, shown by Tory cabinet ministers at the Leveson enquiry.
06:29 PM on 09/19/2012
Sorry not an historian, but I've read a book or two, and there was a BBC doc about it not so long back, so like it or loathe it its true.
07:02 PM on 09/19/2012
bradjohn9.
I find this more humerous than a Morcame and Wisde Christmas special.
The BBC is recognised, as a taxpayer financed means of UK government world propoganda, as well as providing programs that very few wish to watch. Any program containing such nonsense would not have been shown in Scotland. Their broadcasts to different regions contain different content. Having lived in Scotland all my life and interesting myself in its affairs, in a minor way , out of concern, I have never heard so much nonsense in my life.
I think the UK government would have been very quick to mention this, at a very earlier time , if there was any truth to this. I must admit , that this is the tallest story I have ever heard , regarding people seeking cause to interfere with Scottish independence.
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07:41 PM on 09/18/2012
If Scotland votes YES in 2014 what the rUK does with its flag won't be our business. Caring less would be impossible.
If Scotland votes NO in 2014 the union flag will remain as it is. Caring less would still be impossible.
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tc-byrne
Victoria Concordia Crescit
08:50 PM on 09/18/2012
So you couldn't care less then...............
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08:53 PM on 09/18/2012
About the union jack? No. Not at all.
05:52 PM on 09/18/2012
a flag is way down the list of priorities for scotland .
06:30 PM on 09/18/2012
We already have two, a proud upright Lion (not cowering with it's 2 pals) and of course the St Andrews cross.
09:12 PM on 09/18/2012
Lions dont walk on there back leg's, and you might not like the union flag, but by slating it how many scots who died proudly defending it are you insulting.
06:34 PM on 09/18/2012
we already have two of our own, a proud upright lion that does'nt hunt in packs of 3 or cower and of course the St Andrews cross.
05:24 PM on 09/18/2012
I hope we do leave the union, it will stop all the bullcrap moaned about us Scots begging you English for money. keep your money, we'll keep the Oil, Whisky and tourism revenue from our beautiful country not to mention Irn Bru.
05:48 PM on 09/18/2012
The oil is British not Scottish, Scotland will have a proportionate share , the money raised from whisky sales is mainly through taxation, and goes to the government of the country in which it is sold . If Scotland decides to join the EEC it will have to use the Euro. and will have to adopt the "no borders policy". Meaning, because the UK has opted out of the agreement, you could expect to see border controls between England and Scotland, and Ulster and Scotland, leading (especially with drivers entering England) to massive tailbacks and jams. However, there can be no controls for entering Scotland, because under EEC law, they would be illegal.... I am Scottish, live and work in Scotland, support the Union and have no time for " Kim Yong Salmond" or his cronies and lackies.
06:04 PM on 09/18/2012
When all is said the Oil rigs are in Scottish waters, as for the whisky revenue have you no idea what value that has to Scotland add export duty then it is a serious amount, border controls will be decided at the time as will currency and membership of of any European state will be decided by the citizens of Scotland not faux scots as I suspect you are. You ridicule Alex Salmond,a man who is proud to be Scots, something that is lacking from your statement. you my friend are British, I am not.
12:46 PM on 09/19/2012
freebooter1
You should write for TV .
I wager you, or your family, take advantage of the benefits the SNP government provides here, such as free health care and presciptions, and free university education, for your children, and care of your elderly.
You should think of immigrating to England , where I can assure you, that the Tory coalition government, will give you more than the opporunty, to financially support the the system you favour.
08:04 PM on 09/18/2012
The oil belongs to the UK, scotland would have no claim on it under international law.
08:32 PM on 09/18/2012
Disagree with that toffeeman, international waters was decided using each countries coastline which is why the UK and Norway did well out of it getting the lions share of the oil and gas fields however England has less than 1900 miles of coastline whereas Scotland has over 7200. If this rule was applied to a new country as Scotland would become then Scotlands waters would shrink marginally and Englands drastically. Britain would be viewed as seperate countries in the same way as Norway, Denmark and Holland are seperate although part of the same land mass.
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08:55 PM on 09/18/2012
Tosh. Scotland's share would be somewhere around 85% of the current north sea fields and 100% of the new fields being developed to the west. rUK would have about 15% of the oil but the bulk of the gas.. not sure of the % figures on that though.
05:15 PM on 09/18/2012
We are supposed to be a United Kingdom so we should keep it tis way . Scotland should not break away as iam sur it wiil be a drastic nistake if it ever happens Parliament should block the idea.
07:50 PM on 09/18/2012
Which Parliament should block it, and how exactly should they do that? The Westminster parliament are already doing everything they can to make thing awkward to the smooth conduct of the referendum, and they aree disseminating bald faced lies to try to scare the Scots from voting to take their place amongs nations, but it will not work.

Surely you are not suggesting that the people of Scotland should not have a say in this, are you?
08:09 PM on 09/18/2012
And, er, how do you propose that Parliament should block the sovereign will of the people?
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Mccuaig William
09:34 PM on 09/19/2012
Scotland is a sovereign nation in it's own right not a county or province of england UK parliament can't block it And remember the people of Scotland are sovereign not the queen or westminster but the people we have the right to remove any queen or king or government that dosen't do it best for the people as laid down in the Declaration of Arbroath on which the American declaration of Independence was founded on
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Mccuaig William
11:29 PM on 09/19/2012
Sorry sparrow lad not arguing with you just posting and to be honest with you can't remember why I posted that appologies sparrowlad
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04:27 PM on 09/18/2012
scotland wont quit. the snp have been caught out on many levels . there history in aberdeen. the Union terrace gardens and hazelhead park issues were the last nail in the coffin
10:10 PM on 09/18/2012
While the SNP are introducing the referendum, it is not a vote for the SNP by voting yes. An independent Scotland might well vote a different party into power the very next general election after!

The referendum itself should be voted on merit, not on which party suggested it. Plenty of Labour, Lib-Dem, Green or other parties supporters support independence, not just (and not all, ironically!) all SNP voters.
12:53 PM on 09/19/2012
staridler.
It was the Labour city council that blocked the modernisation plans for Union Street gardens . Mr Wood put much time and money into this project, only to have it dismissed.
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09:41 PM on 09/19/2012
yes i know it was labour who block the pans and thats why aberdeen elected them the promised to block. its was snp who tried to force the changes through. also snp who allowed the go ahead for a rycling plant right next to one of our best parks.
04:20 PM on 09/18/2012
The St. Patrick's saltire has never been the national flag of Ireland, which adds to the controversy. The original Irish national flag was royal blue with a golden harp in the middle and the flag of Ulster is a red cross on a gold background with a red hand in the middle.
04:07 PM on 09/18/2012
Who is British if not the Welsh? Our remaining speakers of a Brythonic language. The "Brits Out" graffiti you once used to see in Wales were either a demonstration of declining Welsh educational standards, or perhaps painted by English incomers desirous of replacing the aboriginal population
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fredro
04:52 PM on 09/18/2012
Added to which, even the Church of England was founded by/for Welsh Henry Tudor.