- The continuing trials of an accidental mother- week 14 -
My parents were very anxious to meet the Glam Rocker. Messages had been left on my answer phone. It's not that I purposely kept them apart it's just that... well my parents are a very traditional old-fashioned couple. I told them a meeting was possible but they would have to promise not to mention...
"Marriage?"
"No."
"Engagement?"
"No."
"Living together?'
"No!"
"What then?" said my father exasperated, "What?"
"Circumcision..."
There I said it and the room fell silent.
The Glam Rocker is neither religious nor cut. The idea is wholly foreign to him, whereas to me, circumcision is as natural an act as cutting the umbilical cord. I realise in the current climate my opinion may strike a foul chord.
Firstly, I do not regard it in anyway as mutilation or child abuse. I see no correlation between male and female circumcision. The loss of skin taken from a penis does not impede, detract, or deny a man's sexuality in the way the removal of a clitoris does to a woman. Billions of men are circumcised the world over and it is a custom practised not just by Jews and Muslims, but was a routine procedure in the 20th century in countries such as America, the Caribbean, NZ and Australia.
Historically a circumcised penis was deemed to be "cleaner". Practically it is easier to clean, (many would also argue more aesthetically pleasing) but most importantly less susceptible to disease. This latter point is, today advocated by the World Health Organisation in an effort to stem the current spread of Aids in Africa.
"We are not living in Africa," argues the Glam Rocker. "Hygiene is not an issue. There is no physical need to circumcise a new-born. We are born complete beings."
I cannot refute his points. My argument is that it is an integral part of a boy's Jewish identity, his heritage, my heritage.
I grew up in Dublin in an orthodox Jewish family. I say orthodox but only in the hypocritical sense. I am not in any way religious. Despite a strong cultural affinity with the religion, I am the type of Jew who observes a bespoke pick and mix of traditions, (High Holidays and Friday nights) primarily because such occasions are all about family and family is hugely important to me.
This issue has the potential to be a colossal problem, or rather a snippet of a problem with huge repercussions, not just for us as a couple but especially for my parents. Regarding the former, the Glam Rocker and I are in the embryonic stages of our relationship. I have to consider his views. He is the child's father. Why should his son be different to him?
As for the latter, (the effect on my parents), the idea of their grandson being uncut would be an anathema to them. They would feel betrayed by me and that their grandson would not be 100% kosher albeit Judaism is passed down the maternal line.
As always, nothing's ever cut and dried.
We arrived at my parent's apartment, the Glam Rocker, Boy Wonder and yours truly. The Glam Rocker came prepared with a bouquet of flowers for my mother and I'd come with a mere 20 minutes on the parking meter. What could possibly go wrong in 20 minutes?
As first meetings go, it went - washed down easily enough with a cup of tea, some small talk, and a digestive. Religion didn't rear its provocative head (thank the Lord, Allah, Yahoo etc).
Instead, the Glam Rocker and I had astutely (to our minds at least) viewed a property together earlier in the day, the details of which peeked from my open shoulder bag. This instantly reassured my folks that the Glam Rocker's intentions were honourable and floated the idea of perhaps sometime in the future the pair of us living together.
Gender politics of a 14-week-old foetus.
While upstairs we contemplated cutting the skin of a week old boy, the baby's sex would be determined and become apparent during this week. Ovarian follicles begin forming in girls and the prostate appears in boys. It is about this time the baby's arms will reach the final relative lengths they'll be at birth and its neck becomes more defined. Red blood cells form in its spleen. By now the baby might be almost 3.5 inches (87 millimetres) long from crown to rump and weigh about 1.5 ounces (45 grams).
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For example, my family has a history of UTI's and my husband had uncles that had phimosis and needed a surgery as adults. Also, we do a lot of travelling to countries where clean water might not be so accessible (which a lot of the younger generation do nowadays ... travel), so for my situation, I believe circumcision might be best for my sons because I do not want them to experience the unpleasantness of having a foreskin. Some parents like mine even though they enforced my brothers to clean their foreskins, they always had problems with infections. My parents cannot physically get in the shower with my pre-teen brothers and inspect their penises and scrub them everyday, that seems more wrong to me.
I circumcised my boys for Same reason I vaccinate my children. Foreskins make for a more sensitive penis, doh, just like my earlobes are sensitive to touch but until over 50% of men circumcised as adults say they cannot have a functioning penis anymore (meaning not being able to orgasm and have children), then I can be confident that my sons are not less of men, just because they don't have foreskins.
There is nothing unpleasant about having a foreskin it is the most exquisitely pleasurable part of the male body and provides comfort for the glans. Imagine having if your clitoral foreskin was cut off, how uncomfortable would it be having your underwear rubbing on you all day, it would develop a thick layer of skin to protect it as happens to circumcised men.
People need to respect parent's decisions for their children especially those parents that consider this procedure for potential health benefits.
My biggest problem with anti-circs are that they are so adamant in making other parents not circumcise that they are feeding lies and hate towards parents that want to have their sons circumcised.
If you were lucky enough to not have problems with the foreskin, I'm sure it would give an extra sexual pleasure. The foreskin is pleasant but also causes a lot of unpleasant things. But unfortunately, we live in a society where sex is everything, where people would fight for babies to have extra sexual pleasures than fight for babies not to suffer from foreskin problems. Where people say, STD's can be prevented by condoms but also argue that foreskins feels great sliding in the vagina, but is countered by the use of condoms.
So did you consider the other people who suffered a lot from having a foreskin? I personally knew at least 10 people who had bad Phimosis but were too embarrassed as teenagers to see the doctor about it.
There is no right or wrong, there is only fifty shades of grey!
The same people will say, it is inhumane, how about you guys spend your (too much) spare time and energy on actually helping children in need? When you guys have actually feed hungry children, given a home to the homeless children, protected children from being raped and abused..... or even stop parents from divorcing since that is so much more traumatic, then I will consider that argument.
"taking away parent's decision to have their children circumcise is not different from making it mandatory to have children circumcised."
That statement is obvious nonsense when you consider that "children" includes daughters.
Two wrongs don't make a right. I don't expect you back here, since you'll be out actually feeding hungry children, giving a home to the homeless children, protecting children from being raped and abused..... or even stopping parents from divorcing...
My question is, why bully other parents who wish to make decisions for their children? If they want their sons circumcised for medical benefits and cultural reasons, it is their kids. There is no supporting evidence that circumcision is detrimental to a male not any more than bad eating habits, divorces and not having a stable home is detrimental to children.
"I don't expect you back here, since you'll be out actually feeding hungry children, giving a home to the homeless children, protecting children from being raped and abused..... or even stopping parents from divorcing..."
Yeah, if I was anti-circumcision, then I would also be anti-everything of the above and I would be fighting for those children too, that was a hypocritical statement you made.
As for two wrongs don't make it right: you must be kidding me? I was trying to demonstrate that if you make one "wrong" illegal, then what about the other "wrongs" that basically have the same circumstances. The point is those other things I mentioned are not considered wrong because no one cares to analyze the whole thing. Most people that are against circumcision have a mindset to eliminate it, but don't think to eliminate the other factors that also harm the well-being of a child.
People that should be ashamed of themselves are those:
1. That force their beliefs to others.
2. That compare male circumcision to Female Genital Mutilation
3. That say parents that circumcise their baby boys, have RAPED, TORTURED, MUTILATED their sons.
These comparisons are utterly disgusting, degrading, disrespectful, inconsiderate and genuinely upsetting to those who were RAPED, TORTURED and MUTILATED in an abusive way who has not experienced a home or loving parents as children, who would give anything in the world to have loving parents that think about their well-being and best intentions in mind.
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Also it is not "billions of men"... amazing how you can make that blanket statement ... the communities with a near 100% uptake of circumcision - male Muslims and Jews - only make up a billion at best. Where do you get your figures from, the same place you got the idea where circumcision isn't mutilation simply because its male?
FGM removes the clitoris and majority of the outer female part. Removing the clitoris is like removing the head of the penis. Some women who have had circumcision might even call this comparison an insult, while other women, might actually say that FGM is not barbaric. There are 4 different levels or extremities of FGM.
Evil is in the eye of the beholder and in the tone of the speaker.
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As a woman, how would you know? The arrogance is startling. Same goes for circumcised from birth males. Or recently circumcised males. The only ones who can qualify making that statement are those who were uncircumcised well into adulthood (to experience sexual activity), then got circumcised, then a few years - decades - after that.
But really, yours and those who agree viewpoints' are disturbing - for the rest of us, and for their children. For you to deny them that choice. To say what's right, when there's no proof either way, or it's not. And then for the same people to act as if it is normal. Crazy people.
I honestly wish you all the luck possible in your pregnancy but I sincerely hope you don't mutilate him at birth. Or perhaps have a baby girl so you won't even contemplate mutilating her genitals.
The fact that "it probably" - actually, almost certainly - "wouldn't happen" is an excellent reason NOT to take his choice away from him.
Even in Africa, a USAID report says this:
"There appears no clear pattern of association between male circumcision and HIV prevalence—in 8 of 18 countries with data, HIV prevalence is lower among circumcised men, while in the remaining 10 countries it is higher."
http://www.measuredhs.com/pubs/pdf/CR22/CR22.pdf
There's at least one study showing lower rates of HIV in circumcised women btw, but that doesn't make it ok to cut girls.
You left someone out of your considerations. What about the boy?
You have to decide whether you will raise your children to be an integrated part of the Jewish community (though not necessarily Orthodox). Otherwise they will be part of a multi-ethnic family group, not specifically tied to any religion or ethnic community.
Think also that if circumcised they will look different from their classmates and friends, unless they live in the US where males are almost all circumcised.
You have to consider whether by choosing circumscision you are sending your parents a message, thus opening the doors for your parents to pressure you to raise the lad to be Jewish in a manner acceptable to them. (You know your parents. Only you know whether that will be a problem.)
Does Glam Rocker have a family, and do they have an opinion on this?
The question of circumcision is just the beginning.
I've been through something similar.
Good luck to you, and enjoy your pregnancy.
Loss of my pinky toe wont effect my balance but i still dont want to lose it
Instead of abusing babies. let them reach age 16 or 18 and see if they are still keen to have it sliced off.
I myself however am uncircumsized, because I was born outside the United States...and because where I was born, only Muslims and Jews practice circumcision on newborns...I didn't belong to either of those religions when I was born...
Do I regret being an uncircumsized man in a nation of circumsized men?
No, the STD issue is not a concern for me, because I know when to use a condom, as a matter of fact, I keep a condom in my wallet non-stop.
On the other hand, Do I claim to be a "complete" man compared to those who are circumsized?
No, off course not...
Both of those contradicting arguments are clichees to me....
And it could be because I do live in the United States, where this is not a controversial issue anymore, it's an issue that's been laid to rest long time ago - this country has long accepted to have all its newborns circumsized, that no one cares...
That having been said, would I voluntariliy get myself circumsized now, at age 35?
Not a chance!
I am quite fond of leaving the condition of my penis just the way it is! Uncirumsized as it is!
Being a man, I have a right to maintain the condition of my phallus.
"Plainly said, every newborn, regardless of what religion has been circumcised here in the U.S..."
The girls get legal protection, but even circumcised boys are already in the minority on the west coast.
Drops in male circumcision since 1950:
USA: from 90% to 55%
Canada: from 48% to 17%
UK: from 35% to about 5% (about 1-2% among non-Muslims)
Australia: 90% to 12.4% ("routine" circumcision has recently been *banned* in public hospitals in all states)
New Zealand: 95% to below 3% (mostly Samoans and Tongans)
South America and Europe: never above 5%
Since almost no intact men choose to get circumcised, why is it still done to babies? Surely everyone should be able to decide for themselves whether or not they have parts of their genitals cut off.