The demise of feminism is back in the news again. Carla Bruni-Sarkozy and Katy Perry have both made public statements about how unnecessary feminism is to their personal lives. Suzanne Venker has not only declared feminism dead but claims that there is now a war on men. Ironically, this death of feminism has coincided with very public demonstrations of feminist activism, as well as increased public debate on the issue of the inclusion of men within the feminist movement.
Yet, the debate over the inclusion of men within feminism movement has always been important. It has never stopped being important. It has only re-emerged in the mainstream British press due to the backlash to the women-only RadFem 2012 conference in London in June; as well as the no-platforming on the Manchester Women-Up North Conference who chose to have one session for FAAB-women survivors of sexual violence only. The inclusion of men within the feminist movement has been debated for 40 years now. It never stopped being debated.
I support women-only spaces. I think they remain fundamental to the success of feminism as a political movement dedicated to the liberation of women. Yet, no one ever seems to ask feminists why they believe women-only spaces are important or why the exclusion of men from *some* feminist events is necessary for revolution. No one asks why feminists are moving back to women-only organising or why feminists are increasingly identifying as political lesbians or lesbian separatists? Why are women-only spaces, once again, becoming so important? No one asks why there is such a backlash to the thought of women-only organising? When people do ask, they don't appear to be hearing the answer.
Whilst the inclusion of men within the movement is necessary, they do not need to be involved at every meeting and conference. There are thousands of ways that men can be, and are, involved with feminist activism that doesn't require them encroaching on women-only spaces. They can help financially support women's organisations like Rape Crisis, Shakti Women's Aid, Women's Aid, Nia, or Southall Black Sisters. Men can join activist groups like Object, UK Feminista, Fawcett Society, and Abortion Rights. Men can fundraise by holding car washes and bake sales. They can join the White Ribbon Campaign and help to raise awareness about male violence against women and children.
The most important thing men can do to help the feminist movement is to challenge sexism every time they witness it. They have to challenge every rape joke. They have to challenge every man who minimises domestic violence. They have to step up every time; not just once in a while but every time they witness sexism. Sometimes this means they have to challenge themselves and recognise that their own behaviour is sexist. Sometimes it means accepting that they won't be allowed into every feminist space. As a white, heterosexual feminist it would be hypocritical of me to demand to be allowed into feminist spaces for Black, Ethnic and Minority Women. It would be equally hypocritical for me to demand entry into a feminist space for lesbians-only, just as it would be hypocritical for me to demand entry into a room of male survivors of sexual violence or testicular cancer. Campaigning for women's liberation to bring about the destruction of the capitalist-patriarchy and the creation of true equality does not mean every person deserves equal access. It means hearing the specific needs of specific groups and taking those into account. Like kindergarten, it's about learning fairness.
We need men in the feminist movement. We need men who understand the real long-term effects of male violence. We need men who listen. We need men who support without dominating. Male domination of speech, both in public and private, has been well proven in research for thirty years now. Dale Spender wrote about it in The Writing of the Sex? in 1989. Andrea Dworkin wrote about male silencing tactics in her classic text Intercourse:
"Men often react to women's words - speaking and writing - as if they were acts of violence; sometimes men react to women's words with violence. So we lower our voices. Women whisper, Women apologize. Women shut up. Women trivialize what we know. Women shrink. Women pull back. Most women have experienced enough dominance from men - control, violence, insult, contempt - that no threat seems empty."
The main reason why I believe women-only spaces are integral to the feminist movement is because the silencing of women's voices never stops. Sometimes the only way to stop the silencing is to uninvite men and that's the lesson men need to take from this. If they insist on attending, whose voices are they really silencing?
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The issue of women only anything must follow a simple rule...consistency. As long as you're not holding that exclusivity is forbidden for one sex yet ok for the other, no problems legally (or hypocritically).
This one: "They have to challenge every man who minimizes domestic violence."
What is "minimizing? Denying it is a big problem....or bringing up studies which seem to consistently show a much larger female "footprint" (in terms of violence) than what is reported? Does this data REALLY have to be "comprehensive, probative research" to spark a discussion of its findings? Is all other cited research the same? What if we read data that goes against this stereotype of men being the "overwhelming majority" of violent perps in the US/UK? Do we ignore it...for fear of appearing as though we are "minimizing?
Seems to me an open discussion is merited, long before rushing to judgment about the messenger of the unbiased research. Isn't that what sites like this are for? Intelligent people who debate do not judge so quickly.
As for end of feminism talk...I don't believe it for a second. The feminist movement is what brought equality to women. What will take it away are the extreme fringes which are just too interested in people's private lives, language, etc...
My niece is a true beauty and she's been chased by boys and men since puberty. Throughout high school and her first year of college, she had a string of boyfriends, two of whom were extremely abusive to her and stalked her in a terrifying manner when she tried to break up with them. Since the last boyfriend, over a year ago, I notice she no longer seems to hang out with ANY guys and has a circle of friends that are either openly or tacitly lesbian. She says she isn't attracted to women herself but that she just loves these women and their friendship. They have girl only parties and seem to have created an exclusively female place for each other to feel safe and have fun.
It's probably a passing fad for her.She took a sharp turn after the last boyfriend who had to be expelled from their college after stalking and threatening her and attacking a young man who tried to defend her. I think she just needs a woman only space to feel safe for now.
The inclusion of men within the movement could be useful, but it is not necessary.
We should not feed the sense of male entitlement to be included everywhere and in everything. The belief that men are entitled to be everywhere is the consequence of their belief that they own the world and that everyone should defer to them. We need to challenge that.
I also don't see where this revival of separatism or "political lesbianism" is coming from - it seems to be the same old faces which have been popping up since the 70s and 80s. So they publish new books occasionally - that doesn't mean their ideas are any more popular or relevant now than they were before.
That's one of the most important things men can do to help women in general.
The same group of male bullies who consistently post MRA agitprop will invariably be found on only a few other topics - defending porn, prostitution, "polyamory", defending the male privilege of older men dating much younger women, defending abusers like Chris Brown, latching on to any ardent anti-feminist female (i.e. Erin Pizzey) they can locate through a link on an MRA propaganda site. They're very predictable, and overall it's the PATTERN of their interests and their opinions that mark them as misogynists. They're not creative thinkers. The MRA sites out there provide them with links to self justifying "data" and they mindlessly recycle it, then do silly victory dances that they are providing ultimate "truth" to the feminists they loathe.
I have found, in visiting various other boards, especially progressive political sites, that HP has become rather notorious for enabling this group of nasties. So it's not just our imagination. It seems to be pretty much common wisdom that HP and the MRAs go together. They like it here. They send each other here. That really is the explanation.
It is a shame. And it is going to drive intelligent and reasonable people away from HP, but somehow I don't think HP folks care. Clicks is all that matters.
Cute. "routinely taken over" is one way to interpret open discussions where opposing views become visible. LOL
An interesting, and no doubt unwelcome development in feminism may be found in Ukraine where there are feminist organisations which are overtly anti-Islamic. These feminist movements are not embedded in the liberal worldviews of their West European counterparts.
Those who say these Ukrainians cannot be ''real'' feminists are wrong. Feminism is about equality of the sexes. It is not about multicultural liberalism. There is trouble brewing here.
It is true that we need men in the feminist movement, of course. But, fundamentally, we need women in the feminist movement. Equality cannot be given to us by men, women must take it. We either are equal in status or we are not. Only by demanding and taking our rights will we achieve equality. The support of men is necessary and welcome, but it is our fight to win.
People have mistaken ideas about what misogyny is. They think it has to be conscious, willful, deliberate. Nope. A guy who participates in a woman-hating system, even if he has no conscious intention of oppressing women, is still oppressing women. That participation is as easy as dismissing feminist concerns or shrugging off our complaints as mere oversensitivity. How many men do you know who do that?
They're not a minority. They're the majority.