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Tim Whitmarsh

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Gay Marriage and the Church

Posted: 30/01/2013 23:20

There was a time, not too long ago, when liberal Brits thought that gay marriage hysteria was something that only happened in other countries. Even David Cameron seems to have thought it was a tame, uncontroversial issue that would get him a tick in his socially progressive box without causing too much trouble. How wrong he was. If there's one message to take home from all the furore, it is that one should never underestimate the desire of the pious to dictate what other people do in their love lives.

All the uproar is, at one level, deeply weird. The bill to be debated in Parliament on 5 February is in itself about the tamest piece of proposed legislation in the history of anything. In practical terms, it changes very little. It's fundamentally a huge debate about the meaning of a single word. Civil partnerships already give gay couples pretty much the same rights as married straight couples. All this fuss arises, basically, because some (certainly not all) gays would prefer to have the option of using the more socially acceptable word 'marriage' to describe their long-term relationships, and because some (certainly not all) faith groups think they have a God-given right to deny them that choice.

That's weird enough, but it gets weirder. Under the proposals, the Church of England and the Catholic Church will be legally barred from conducting gay marriages. And yet it is members (some of them very powerful members) of the Church of England and the Catholic Church who are objecting most vociferously. At first sight, this is just silly: it's like the FA protesting over changes to the rules of darts. Football and darts are both sports, but they have different rules. Church and civil weddings are both marriages, but they will have different rules. What's wrong with that?

Well, what's wrong is that the analogy only works if you are committed to the idea that civil society has areas that are secular, beyond the reach of the Church. The most sinister fact that the kerfuffle discloses is that the Christian opponents of gay marriage simply don't accept that principle. All the post-census debate about whether Britain is 'still a Christian country' is only superficially about how people choose to identify themselves on their forms; much more fundamentally, it's about anxiety over the relegation of Christianity from its former position as beacon of national morality to its new status as one of any number of opt-in lifestyle choices. 'Hey, I'm a Christian'; 'That's so cool, I do yoga'; 'Yoga? Never got into it, I prefer darts.' That's some come-down.

But for all that the gay marriage debate is a vehicle for bigger issues, it's no accident that marriage and sexuality are the battleground. The various Christian Churches have a huge problem with sexuality, and have had for a long time. Actually, perhaps surprisingly, it's not a big theme in the Christian gospels: yes, there are some passages here and there about various improprieties, but it's not a major issue. Even Paul is much, much more exercised by women who won't wear the veil than by 'men who sleep with men.' (Modern Christians seem strangely silent on the issue of female veiling: I wonder why?) It was only later, in the Roman period, that Christians got heavily into sexual repression - and they did so as a counter-cultural statement, to absent themselves from the rigorous dynastic demands of Roman marriage. Then once Christianity became the religion of empire in the fourth century, control of sexuality became an ideology, and a means of imposing power. It was then that Christianity's most pernicious dogma took root: the idea that the masses are fallen beings because they have sexual urges, and so they should accept their priestly masters as superiors.

Nietzsche, in my view, is the best analyst of institutional Christianity. In The Anti-Christ he argues that the Church has always set out to deny and repress humanity's natural urges, and it does this for entirely self-serving reasons. Feeling like you can't measure up to some impossible standard of pious self-control? Who ya gonna call? Why, your local priest of course.

I don't - I hope this is clear - mean this as a blunderbuss attack on all Christians. The world is a huge, complex, diverse place, and benefits immeasurably from serious moral reflection. Christianity, like all other philosophies, can save people, it can change them, it can inspire them to do extraordinary things. But let's talk for a moment in moral absolutes. Ecclesiastical hierarchies have got it badly wrong on sexuality. They have done for over 1700 years. The issue has nothing to do with God, gods or godlessness; it's about humans and their accursed desire to exercise control over their fellow beings. Let's let people live and love as they choose, and stop mistaking prurience, prudishness and power for piety.

 
 
 

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There was a time, not too long ago, when liberal Brits thought that gay marriage hysteria was something that only happened in other countries. Even David Cameron seems to have thought it was a tame, u...
There was a time, not too long ago, when liberal Brits thought that gay marriage hysteria was something that only happened in other countries. Even David Cameron seems to have thought it was a tame, u...
 
 
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13:30 on 03/02/2013
Completely wrong. The issue is about Democracy. About two political parties, neither of which achieved a majority and neither of which mentioned same sex marriage in their manifestos, now seeking to push through a change which is opposed by a significant portion of the electorate
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Tim Whitmarsh
17:31 on 05/02/2013
There's no democratic problem here. All three parties have a majority in favour: even the Conservatives are likely to vote 2/3 for. And when you say 'a significant portion of the electorate', you mean a minority. The polls are unequivocally in favour. And the point about manifestos is irrelevant because it's not a party issue, it's a free vote.
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hellhound
fangs `aint what they used to be!
15:22 on 02/02/2013
He should be more clear that this "repression stuff" is confined to the Church of Rome and its soiled history. Some believe Catholicism to be the antichrist.
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Tim Whitmarsh
18:24 on 01/02/2013
Amen to that, too.
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Tim Whitmarsh
15:22 on 01/02/2013
Simon, I'm not a Christian myself, but what you've just said embodies all that I admire most about Christianity.
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Simon Stylites
Dreamer, reader, writer, fool.
14:43 on 01/02/2013
As a Christian, I WILL NOT lobby my MP.

There is so much wrong in this world, I would happily send postcards all day to my MP complaining and advising her how to vote on issues in the Church’s name.

But to prevent the love of two people for each other from being legalised and sanctified by the God of love, is the same as straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel (Matthew 23:22-24).

The overriding message of Jesus was love. Jesus modelled love; Jesus preached love; Jesus was love. That fact alone should lead Christians to the most obvious, and most Christian of all positions, stated so beautifully by Paul himself in 1 Corinthians 13:

“Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.”
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Justinjuice
15:03 on 01/02/2013
I wonder if I am the only person who has no idea what you are saying ?
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Simon Stylites
Dreamer, reader, writer, fool.
15:17 on 01/02/2013
Keep reading; keep living; keep loving - some day the penny will drop.
16:18 on 05/02/2013
Yes you are...
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Tim Whitmarsh
14:07 on 01/02/2013
No, hang on! 'Marriage' is first and foremost a secular, civil idea. ALL marriages in the UK are civil marriages, i.e. contractual agreements binding the partners under the law; only SOME of them are religious.

And your second point seems to be based on a misunderstanding: there was never any suggestion that all religions would be *forced* to conduct gay marriages. The first draft of the bill said that all religions would be *allowed to* if they wanted to. Under the revised plans, certain religions (the CoE and any other whose leaders haven't specifically opted in) will be banned from conducting them.
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abandon hope
13:45 on 01/02/2013
Look,the church is a club which invites ALL people to join ,IF,you obey their rules,if you can't,then don't join,marriage is a term that the church uses,if your'e not a member,and you don't want to join,then use your own terminology,ie,civil partnership,what's so hard about that.Incidentally,why would you want to belong to an organisation that doesn't want you.
As for making this non-obligatory on the church,there is one,and only one reason,that is,that had they insisted on all religions complying,the mosques would never,ever agree,and we mustn't upset them,must we?
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Tim Whitmarsh
11:51 on 01/02/2013
Thanks again for your comments. Natlist, I respectfully disagree: civil (i.e. non-religious) marriage is older than Christianity itself. In most of the ancient world, marriage was a legal arrangement to ensure property rights, maintenance of children, citizenship, etc. It wasn't sacramental. Even in Christian Europe, the idea that marriage has to be performed in churches is recent. Civil marriages were perfectly normal in England till the act of 1753 requiring them to be presided over by a recognised religious official. (The act was withdrawn after less than 100 years.) Religion has no exclusive claim on marriage.

Incidentally, I hope it's clear that I wasn't trying to make an excuse for indiscriminate Christian-bashing. As Averagejosephine says, plenty of Christians have sensible, tolerant views on the issue.

Justinjuice, I don't manage the comments; I don't know why it didn't appear. Contact HuffPo? If you were saying that Nietzsche has his dodgy side, then you're absolutely right. I do know about large Catholic families, trust me! And I don't really think LGBT groups are trying to control how others think; they're just after dignity and respect. You'll always find silly obsessives in any community, I'm sure, but by and large I don't think it's an issue.
18:01 on 03/02/2013
Given that now, for the first time, over 50% of marriages conducted end in DIVORCE, surely the
legality and venue are irrelevant. Sadly the main reason a lot of people want a CoE Church wedding has nothing to do with religion - they merely want a big occasion to show off with, just the same as wanting 200 guests at the reception ! I'm not a CoE person, but I do wonder why they tolerate this
situation. Perhaps it is just to keep the taxpayers happy and the wedding fees coming in.
16:29 on 05/02/2013
I am a CofE person myself and can say that it is all down to the CofE being the national church. Because the small parishes get the bill for centuries old buildings, they need all the money they can get. Believe me. If the CofE was not the national church, all this old buildings could be easily sold off and new purpose built temples could be built with a 10th of the profit from the old ones. I know in my parish we have to pay 27 000 a year just to heat the f**ker.
16:24 on 05/02/2013
Tim, You mention that civil marriages are older than Christianity. I quite agree, and this IMO is key to understanding the role of marriage within the Church (in Europe). Now my question to you is this, since you are a Prof. of Ancient Literature, could you signpost me to documents, books, etc. that deal with this matter? I.e when did marriage become part of the Church, and was there a discussion, council, encyclical about it? looking forward to your comment.
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Justinjuice
11:04 on 01/02/2013
Mr Whitmarsh can you explain to me why my post which included refences to Nietzsches attitudes to women and feminists has not appeared ? Is it due to some technical glitch or has the post been censored ?
Thank you.
If you require references to the quotes they can be supplied.
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Justinjuice
23:10 on 31/01/2013
" Feeling like you can't measure up to some impossible standard of pious self-control? Who ya gonna call? Why, your local priest of course. "
Ironically given Mr Whitmarsh's comments on self -control, is that the catholic church is only all too happy for married catholics to exercise no control whatsoever in having sex with each other and one of the characteristics of good catholics was extremely large families ! It doesnt strike me that the author actually knows that much about the subject he is writing about - perhaps he has spent too much time in the libraries of Oxford >
00:32 on 01/02/2013
He wasn't referring to married couples was he now...
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Justinjuice
10:43 on 01/02/2013
Has he appointed you to answer on his behalf ?
22:00 on 31/01/2013
(3) "It was only later, in the Roman period, that Christians got heavily into sexual repression - and they did so as a counter-cultural statement, to absent themselves from the rigorous dynastic demands of Roman marriage."

---That is a matter of a(n alleged) change of emphasis, not doctrine. However, there is not a lot of record of doctrinal emphasis in the "Early Christian" period, and I will have to assume this statement fits under the hypothesis of "Christianity became an instrument of oppression with the institutionalisation of Catholic Church"

(4) "Then once Christianity became the religion of empire in the fourth century, control of sexuality became an ideology, and a means of imposing power. It was then that Christianity's most pernicious dogma took root: the idea that the masses are fallen beings because they have sexual urges, and so they should accept their priestly masters as superiors."

---This is a bizarre libertine conspiracy theory, that the preaching of chastity is a tool of oppression and control. It is a bizarre means of control because it is quite oblique and totally separate from regular channels of control: matters of economic resources and political power that actually determine life and death. How does preaching celibacy compare to, say, usury as a means of subduing people?

Yet, Church fathers are consistent on both issues. They supported strict sexual mores and opposed usury. In contrast, Whitmarsh's Huff Post partners with Goldman Sachs, which largely opposes strict sexual mores and supports usury.
21:57 on 31/01/2013
Whitmarsh is surprised because there are several matters here he fails to understand.

(1) "Well, what's wrong is that the analogy only works if you are committed to the idea that civil society has areas that are secular, beyond the reach of the Church. The most sinister fact that the kerfuffle discloses is that the Christian opponents of gay marriage simply don't accept that principle."

---What is misunderstood here is that marriage is not primarily a civil relationship that happens to overlap with a religious sacrament. Civil marriage is not an ancient tradition.

(2) "The various Christian Churches have a huge problem with sexuality, and have had for a long time. Actually, perhaps surprisingly, it's not a big theme in the Christian gospels: yes, there are some passages here and there about various improprieties, but it's not a major issue"

---Some evangelical Protestant churches and other individuals may disproportionately emphasise sexuality vis-́à-vis other matters, but the fact of the matter is that there is very little diversity in the writings of Church fathers and in the history of the Catholic and Orthodox churches over matters of sexuality.
On the contrary, there is more of a misplaced emphasis recently on behalf of those who claim to be crusaders for justice but are wholly ignorant of real political struggles of life and death which are centred in foreign policy and finance, but prefer instead to talk about the abstract right to sexual practices.
22:12 on 31/01/2013
No, he had it right.
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18:20 on 31/01/2013
Excellent article, if only the church would accept such common sense. But as you say, I have met loads of Christians who have no problem with gay marriage and can't see what all the fuss is about!

It's funny though, how many Christians fully comply with all the bible says? Last time I checked the bible outlawed sex outside marriage, said inheritance should only go to the son and burn the adulterous with fire. I would to know if Phillip Hammond and Dr Liam Fox (outspoken critics of gay marriage) complied with all these rules? In my opinion there is a lot of pick and choose dependant on your own personal beliefs. Fancy sleeping with your girlfriend but your not married? Well I'll ignore that part then. Cheated on your wife/husband? Probably didn't shout out about how you should be burned with fire. Only had a daughter? Didn't see you giving your house to the church.

Religion is a personal choice, but I just wish some members of society would stop trying to impose their personal choice on others. I mean if you don't like the idea of gay marriage, you probably don't have a host of gay friends (if you do I image that's fairly uncomfortable conversation) so how exactly would a gay couple who you don't know and have nothing to do with impact you if they got married? I'm genuinely curious.....
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Justinjuice
17:44 on 31/01/2013
Would love to hear the professors views on LGBT's desire to force people to think and talk as they want them to do. Seems to me this lust for control isnt any different from the Church.
18:46 on 31/01/2013
Nobody is being forced to do anything. The law proposed is to legalise same sex marriage, not to criminalise disagreement with same sex marriage. The difference is very clear.
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Justinjuice
22:29 on 31/01/2013
Reread my post which did not refer to gay marriage.