Posted:  |  Updated: 21/08/12 16:49 BST

Should Expensive Council Properties Be Sold Off To Solve Our Housing Problems?

A right-wing think tank has suggested councils should sell off expensive houses to fund new building developments.

Policy Exchange, an influential think tank set up by Conservative MP Nick Boles - an ally of prime minister David Cameron - said the UK could afford to build 170,000 affordable homes a year by putting the highest-value properties on the market when they become vacant.

But the think tank been accused of pushing for the poor to be driven out of wealthy areas, and Labour MP Karen Buck has said the policy doesn't make sense and would break up communities.

Step
1

Pre-debate poll:

Tell us your opinion before the debate starts to set the starting line

Expensive Council Houses Should Be Sold Off To Solve Our Social Housing Problems

Agree - Thanks for voting! Please proceed to read the debate below

Please vote to proceed to the debate

Step
2

Who makes the better argument?

Alex Morton Head of housing, Policy Exchange

In England we face both a housing crisis and a growth crisis. Despite high house prices and high and rising rents, the number of homes started last year fell 4% to 98,000. Meanwhile, housing waiting lists are at over 1.8 million households. Individuals and families are trapped waiting in often unsuitable accommodation. As part of trying to get the nation's finances back on track, spend on new homes has been shredded. This is a roll call of doom.

Fortunately we think a policy exists that is very popular, fair, and could boost the number of homes built by between 80,000 and 170,000 a year; nearly double or triple the current total of homes built in the UK. At present, around 20% of the social housing stock in this country is 'expensive'. It is worth more than the average for that size property within the same region (e.g. the North West, London). We believe selling this off as it becomes empty could raise £4.5 billion a year - as much as the last spending round managed over four. 30,000 homes being sold off annually to fund building many new homes in the same area.

Behind the cold figures, the practical reality of current policy beggars belief. I was born in a council flat. My parents hoped for something free of damp in inner city Birmingham. They certainly didn't expect a large and expensive townhouse. This policy isn't just unfair to the taxpayer but also the nearly two million families and individuals on the social housing waiting list. One single family gets a house that most taxpayers can't afford (unfair) and force others to wait for possibly years (unfair). The public agree. 73% believe that social tenants should not be offered new properties worth more than the average in the local authority. 60% agreed that social tenants should not be offered new properties in expensive area. Even social tenants agree with changing the current system.

Some argue that changing current policy will create ghettos and cause mass unemployment. This is simply wrong. Even over time we are only selling 20% of the social housing stock. So most social houses aren't affected. This policy would mix social stock in the bottom 50% of homes and give a 2:1 private: social split, so it doesn't isolate social tenants. What we should be aiming for is decent quality homes as we built in the 1930s or late 1940s. There should be a minimum value as well as a maximum value. Homes and space and gardens achieved via local control over the design and quality of what is built. It is pretty insulting and patronising to say anywhere outside the top half of properties is a 'ghetto'.

On employment, there is a weak link between employment in an area and the value of its housing. Even assuming that the link is 100% causal (living in a more expensive area raises your chance of a job, not just people with jobs live in more expensive areas), the cost per job is £2.5 million. This eye-watering sum compares to £33,000 per job the Regional Growth Fund creates - it is fifty-six times more expensive. Because of commuting location within an area isn't that key for jobs. But while we're on employment this policy creates 340,000 jobs - a desperately needed shot in the arm for the economy and also many unskilled jobs - which we urgently need.

Existing tenants are not affected by this measure. We need to get a grip on housing policy. This is a quick and popular option to help get the economy going and people housed. Government cannot afford to delay.

Alex Morton is head of housing at Policy Exchange

Karen Buck Karen Buck is the Labour Member of Parliament for Westminster North and Shadow Education Minister

The suggestion by the Policy Exchange think-tank that social housing in valuable areas should be sold and the profits used to build more homes in cheaper places, re-hashes an old argument but predictably grabbed the headlines.

Doesn't it make sense, with 4.5 million people in housing need, to boost supply? Surely those in need and on low incomes should not expect to be housed centrally anyway (the myth-makers like to refer to 'Mayfair' or 'near Harrods' as if these neighbourhoods of the global mega-rich are stuffed with council estates).

Well, no, it doesn't make sense. Because behind the beguiling simplicity of the idea lie some complex realities, and as an MP for North Westminster, and previously for the much-cited example of Notting Hill, I have some knowledge of these.

Let's start with the fact that social housing has existed inner London for 150 years, since the big social philanthropists like the Peabody Trust started replacing the slums which had long existed alongside Parliament, Covent Garden etc.

Swathes of what now include some of the country's most expensive properties were once desperately poor. Even as recently as the 1960s, the Notting Hill Housing Trust started by buying and replacing private homes that were a by-word for slum landlordism- somewhat ironically paving the way for the regeneration which now sees houses there sell for many millions. London has always been socially mixed, is now highly ethnically mixed, and has benefited economically, culturally and socially as a result- and social housing has helped make that possible.

Yet more recently still, certainly in Central London, the international property market has surrounded many poorer neighbourhoods, leaving them like islands in a sea of fantastic wealth. It is now estimated that 60% of new sales in central London go to overseas buyers and £5 billion a year is flowing into 'luxury' housing, feeding the house price bubble and freezing out low and middle income buyers and renters. Is the answer to surrender to the tide and let it sweep all before it?

Sales are the only way to deal with the shortfall anyway. Notting Hill Housing Trust originally bought properties to protect poor people locally, but as these grew massively in value the balance sheet of the organisation strengthened and became the foundation for hundreds of millions of pounds of prudential borrowing for more social homes elsewhere. The same applies to all the other social landlords who operate in 'rich' areas. It wasn't necessary to sell the homes to use their value to create more homes elsewhere, as they proved. New investment made sense in itself, as well, which is why the previous government had an £8 billion investment programme which the Conservatives slashed by 60%. That programme passed the value test - creating an asset that makes will make a profit in its lifetime, and pay off in jobs created and benefit bills reduced, but it was decimated.

The number of council homes has already plummeted over the last 30 years because of Right to Buy with boroughs like my own seeing a near-halving of stock. When this policy came in, Margaret Thatcher promised lots of new homes from the proceeds, but the sold homes were never replaced and most of the money disappeared into the Treasury. Some ex-council homes were rented back to low-income and homeless households at much higher prices- helping fuel the rise in Housing Benefit. People who would once have been eligible for a council home ended up in expensive private rented homes, with the same effect. So the promise was made and broken before. Would it be different now?

Finally, let's return to the issue of 'mixed communities'. We hear a great deal about promoting mixed communities in poor places, like the East End boroughs of Newham, or the south London borough of Southwark. Quite right too- everyone understands that concentrating poorer people in poor neighbourhoods is bad for their life chances and for communities- we were debating this last August when the riots took hold. Those councils want a mix, with more home-ownership and greater affluence. So we can't put more council homes there, then. Yet those arguing for mixed communities in that instance don't apply the same logic where low cost housing is currently limited, because those areas have become more valuable, or because they are away from the inner city, in suburbs, towns and even villages elsewhere. Will London's outer suburbs, or market towns in the surrounding countryside build hundreds of thousands of new council homes and, crucially, offer them to those people, outsiders by definition, squeezed from the inner city?

Or, as seems likely, will already affluent areas become ever more so, communities be broken up and the millions in housing need become more marginalised still?

Karen Buck is the Labour Member of Parliament for Westminster North and Shadow Education Minister

Step
3

POST DEBATE POLL

Did one of the arguments change your mind?

Expensive Council Houses Should Be Sold Off To Solve Our Social Housing Problems

VIEW DEBATE ROUND 1 RESULTS

Agree - Thanks for voting again! Here are the results:

Before

After

moreless AgreeDisagreeUndecided

Alex MortonKaren BuckNeither argumenthas changed the most minds

FOLLOW UK

A right-wing think tank has suggested councils should sell off expensive houses to fund new building developments. Policy Exchange, an influential think tank set up by Conservative MP Nick Boles - ...
A right-wing think tank has suggested councils should sell off expensive houses to fund new building developments. Policy Exchange, an influential think tank set up by Conservative MP Nick Boles - ...
Filed by Luke McGee  | 
 
 
  • Comments
  • 49
  • Pending Comments
  • 0
  • View FAQ
Post Comment Preview Comment
To reply to a Comment: Click "Reply" at the bottom of the comment; after being approved your comment will appear directly underneath the comment you replied to.
View All
Favorites
Recency  | 
Popularity
Page: 1 2  Next ›  Last »  (2 total)
05:10 AM on 08/23/2012
HP I liked the style of this article you should do it again
04:50 AM on 08/23/2012
Two points you forgot
Social housing rent use to acts I not sure now as a drag on ever increasing private rents
Children whose social housing is in nicer areas may get the opportunities to go to better
schools.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
Twisted Diva
In losing my God I redeemed my soul
01:54 AM on 08/23/2012
I once worked at my then local coucil

when the council house were sold the money was place into a seperate reserve.

At one time we had £15 mil
and were told that the money could not be reused to build socail housing by the central gove

To sell the houses I think is a fair exchange to both parties

but either way other houses have to be built in replacement
because people need housing to live in
11:22 PM on 08/22/2012
I think thats a brilliant idea,my wife and i bought my mother inlaws council house 20 years ago,and sold it last year making £165,000 profit.
08:25 PM on 08/22/2012
if labour had not allowed the mass immigration that they did,
we would not have these problems now .
12:50 AM on 08/23/2012
Your like one of those old fashion tory gramophones.
Borring,and out of date.
01:10 AM on 08/24/2012
evening fred , Not at all, just making the point should anyone forget what an awful mess the got us into..............
08:22 PM on 08/22/2012
Towns up and down the UK have seen large groups of people from across the world ( not able to name any because this comment will not be allowed) taking housing & jobs within those communities . Now we find ourselves with social housing problems , our next generation unable to buy homes of their own or start families as their parents did . As far as I am concerned the last gov. sold out the people of this countryand created the worst set of circumstances possible for the future .
04:59 AM on 08/23/2012
Yes because we need an influx of young workers to support the pension for the next generation of old people. If we don't increase the population then in the next 10 to15 years time the taxes of two workers will be supporting one pensioner rather than the taxes of three workers as it is today. You obviously need to broaden your horizon and stop reading those White Knight publications.
01:07 AM on 08/24/2012
so we perpetuate a system that will take us to the point of living as sardines in a concrete tin then ?..............
10:53 PM on 08/24/2012
My horizions are fine thankyou very much , I think you maybe ought try a little yoga,..meditation,.. free thought ,  ......but there you go .
This comment has been removed.
10:05 AM on 08/22/2012
Utter nonsense, we must at all costs hold on to these properties. Or the working person will be thrown to the ghettos, this is just politics of the snob.
09:40 AM on 08/22/2012
This is a simple question of trust. Does the proposal have merit - yes. Do you trust the Policy Exchange or the Troy party- no.
So good policy - bad time. Revisit when a more trustworthy administration is in place.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Independentsecularhuman
The name says it all
09:24 AM on 08/22/2012
All members of a family should be forced to share the same accommodation if they are on Public Benefits. Grandparents, Parents, children all under the same roof, helping each other as in times past. No more free housing just because an errant child decided to have a baby and decides it is time for their own Council flat. They should all be under the same roof and the accommodation should not be luxurious but adequate for the numbers.
06:52 PM on 08/22/2012
I agree with that i was going to comment that i would rather these big expensive council houses were sold off rather than house a huge family that is living on welfare, probably originating from overseas
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
Twisted Diva
In losing my God I redeemed my soul
02:09 AM on 08/23/2012
I sometimes think that I went very wrong at the earlier part of my life.

I lived in an area with no family for support
I became a single parent
I worked in jobs I could fit around my son and affording child minders
I eventually had a council flat but decided on buying a flat because I didnt like the socail engenieering of clumping single or non working families together
I might sound slightly snobby but I didnt like it as it was never the responsiblity of the states welfare to support myself and my son.
I do not understand how people have everything that they want......without having ever worked and believe me I have done some awful jobs and yet they get somewhere to live for free plus a free life income
And what galls me the most is when "OUR VISITORS" arrive here they somehow get the best housing without having to do the living in grooty bedsits as I had to
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
Twisted Diva
In losing my God I redeemed my soul
01:58 AM on 08/23/2012
how would your opinion be swayed if there was abuse happening on with in that household?

The members of the same family couldnt get along?

There are more questions but how would you solve that?
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Independentsecularhuman
The name says it all
08:41 AM on 08/23/2012
Before moving to this Country I worked in a Juvenile Court as a delinquent Intake Officer and I saw abuse happen on a large scale..the definition of "abuse" is legion. It would be better to PROSECUTE and ARREST the criminal doing the abusing and remove them from the property..let them make it their own way through life if they choose to ABUSE members of their own family...they forfeit Public benefits...the remainder of the family get along as families do...
08:19 AM on 08/22/2012
It just unbelievable that the UK government has got money for Housing benefit which costs taxpayers £22bn a year. Most countries in the world, do not do not provide with accommodation. People have to pay for their accommodation themselves. Hugo Chavez has increased poverty across Venezuela by introducing a housing benefit.
08:41 AM on 08/22/2012
half of the 4.2 million claimants of HB are in fact working tax payers
Most 1 st world countries have social housing or subsided housing, all have some sort of HB system or pay a percentage of working salary. (unemployment benefit )

Im not sure what Venezuela has done But guess you are talking about social missions
that have helped some 20 million people. 3 million of those with housing. I dont see how this has increased poverty !!
09:04 AM on 08/22/2012
Please do understand that most countries in the world, do not do not provide with accommodation. People have to pay for their accommodation themselves. Housing benefit abolish it. Please don’t have what you can’t afford to pay for yourself.

The UK is over taxed, and on top of that +employers national insurance contributions + VAT 20% + Council tax, a highest taxes on tobacco and alcohol in the EU, +taxes on air travel,+ Air passenger duty (APD) has raised this year. Taxes are too high in the UK. ’’Job creation is a progressive project, and you don’t create jobs in the UK by attacking the businesses that create them.’’

As you know, the UK benefit system is beyond belief, it encourages unemployed poor', young people to act irresponsible‘’.

Can you name any other country in the world that gives £26,000 pay without paying tax for sitting at home and doing nothing ? The UK government is CAPPING benefits at 500 a week. What are they able to claim at the moment!!? We can’t be surprised that people behave irresponsibly if the government is sending out these signals.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
mokgee
Sabu.Satsang, Samsara, Solitude...
07:23 AM on 08/22/2012
Sell them off to whom, Britain is in recession so we are told perpetually by boffins. Just do what you have been doing for years, give them to the immigrants, at least this will alleviate your housing problem, short term of course, it is all coming back to haunt them all...
11:48 PM on 08/21/2012
sector rents are not regulated by mandatory regulation, so to anyone in the industry or the know knew that these Housing Benefit reforms were nothing other than bad news, bad news of the government effectively kicking people out of their homes, having to throw their possessions away and the very richest in society including private equity companies taking possession of these homes, taking away housing from people, and even taking away council housing and turning what is a social necessity into a profit making machine for a minority in society, this of course is to be expected from the Conservative Party, but how long will it be until the Liberal Democrats have the courage and spine to leave the coalition, so that this governments deliberately planned attack on housing and peoples right to housing can be challenged and overturned through a vote of no confidence in the government, and the call for a general election?.
09:42 PM on 08/22/2012
Thatchers Plan explained to a t. Get back into private hands all the property they were forced to dispose of under the 1951 Rent Act.

They don't need a Rachman to throw grannies out of their homes, they use the system and send in the bailiffs. Not just the old, young families as well, The unfortunate thing they never calculated into the plot was that many, who are often called baby boomers, now have no mortgage so they have lost the throat grip on us.

But wait, maybe there will be found a new 'slum clearance' programme where all those pre-war and earlier properties will be declared unfit for modern living and must be demolished.

Crafty cunning and utterly devoid of any humanity. The underlying agenda of EVERY SINGLE TORY and his governments.
11:48 PM on 08/21/2012
I think this is unwise and a very poor move. Council housing is in very high demand, because the government of Margaret Thatcher ended the policy of building council housing, and introduced the "Right To Buy", this has caused a huge vacuum in council housing that has not yet been filled.

The government through it's inexperience and detachment from society, believes that by selling off the most expensive council properties they are somehow generating enough capital to build new council properties, this of course is not true, because if you sell off the most expensive council properties, you are going to make people homeless and cause yet more problems, yet through the poor media coverage the government thinks will happen in regards to the victims of homelessness caused by the selling off of these properties, that the better news generated by the surprise of a Conservative lead government building council housing, that this problem will go away, this problem will not go away because people who are going to be made homeless will speak out, because tens of thousands of people from around the U.K are loosing their homes because this inexperienced government thought that their strategy to reduce private sector rents would not affect people living in private sector properties receiving Housing Benefit, this of course was never true, because private cont'd
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
songster
75 %plus 10
10:37 PM on 08/21/2012
Why not start with Landlords,who rent there properties out to Asylum Seekers for...lets say 300 a week and The Council paying the rent
08:29 AM on 08/22/2012
If thats the market rent in that area!
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
songster
75 %plus 10
12:49 PM on 08/22/2012
Cheers Toby,sure you know what im getting at..could be 500 a week..its just stupid for the council to pay it
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
songster
75 %plus 10
08:51 PM on 08/22/2012
Thx meforme