Posted:  |  Updated: 20/09/12 17:06 BST

Change My Mind: Should All Police Officers Be Armed?

The murder of policewomen Fiona Bone and Nicola Hughes has led to increasing calls for officers to be armed as routine - despite senior officers saying the move would not help.

The chief constable of Greater Manchester Police, Sir Peter Fahy, has said his force believed "passionately" that police should remain unarmed, despite the tragedy.

But the widower of murdered police woman, Paul Beshenivsky, has called for police to be armed, comments echoed by relatives of Pc David Rathband, who was shot and blinded by fugitive Raoul Moat

What do you think? See if our bloggers can change your mind.

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Police officers should be armed

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Norman Brennan Campaigner and former police officer of 31 years

The romantic image of the unarmed British Bobby must sadly be consigned to the history books. Not because of the tragic assassination of two brave police officers, but because Britain's streets today has terrorists, robbers and drug dealers who are armed to the teeth, and teenagers who regularly carry knives.

None of these dangerous individuals have any fear and most of them do not value life. They will not think twice about shooting or stabbing a police officer who gets in their way, let alone an innocent member of the public.

In the main, it is left to the front-line, unarmed officers to tackle these dangerous criminals on behalf of law-abiding citizens. The fact they are forced to do this with little protection is a terrible indictment of our criminal justice system and also of our society in general. Britain is one of only two countries in Europe - the other being the Republic of Ireland - that does not arm its front-line police officers.

A commissioner said a few years ago that the arming of the police service will be event driven. How many more police officers being assassinated do we need to wake up to the reality that our police service needs to be armed?

Whilst on duty as a police officer in 1985, I was stabbed and almost killed by an armed burglar. It brought home to me the very real dangers faced by those in my profession every day of their careers. I started a campaign called Protect the Protectors which pushed for better protection for officers and I have fought tirelessly for this cause for the past 20 years.

Protect the Protectors was instrumental in the introduction of side-handled batons, CS spray and stab-resistant vests. However, none of these will protect a police officer against a bullet. It is simple: front-line officers are being out-gunned.

There are arguments against arming the police, such as doing so will encourage criminals to arm themselves more regularly. However, there is no evidence to prove this and our stringent firearms laws will still be in place regardless of what protection we afford our police officers.

Another argument is that it will increase the number of controversial shootings by the police. In the past, when all the evidence of these types of shootings is examined, the police officers involved are almost always exonerated. Of course, we would need to trust the police and ensure the right type of person is recruited to the force, but we also know it is extremely rare for an officer to fire their weapon and even rarer that they get it wrong.

Police officers have the right to be afforded any and every protection they need to take on dangerous criminals so when faced by dangerous individuals they have a chance to protect the public and themselves, and go home to their families at the end of each shift.

Police officers do not want to carry guns, but many know they need to be to armed in order to carry out their duties in 21st century Britain. I am not passionate about arming the police, but sadly I know it has long been a necessity.

Jenny Jones AM Green Party London Assembly Member

The tragic deaths of two unarmed policewomen in Manchester yesterday will inevitably lead to calls from some quarters for on-duty police in the UK to be armed. But before we pursue such a course of action, we need a proper examination of the facts.

We should listen to those who know best - the police themselves. A 2006 Police Federation survey showed an overwhelming majority (82%) of police opposed the routine arming of on-duty police officers. Despite a rise in terrorism and gun-related crime since similar surveys in 2003 and 1995, officers questioned remained steadfast in their opposition to armed policing.

Interestingly when asked if a decision were made to train and arm all police officers whilst on duty, out of the 13.8% who said they would never carry a firearm on duty, an incredible 56% claimed that they would resign from the force rather than accept an order to carry a firearm. That would have a dreadful impact on the ability of the Metropolitan Police to serve Londoners.

It is also worth looking to examples from other police forces around the world to see if arming the police would keep them safer. In the United States 511 police officers were killed between 2000 and September 2010. Of those officers killed 51 were slain when they own gun was turned against them.

Male or female, armed or not armed it would not have made a difference in this situation. Tragically these two dedicated officers were deliberately lured into a trap. This awful event should not be used to devalue the many occasions on which we have seen female officers outperform their male counterparts in their ability to defuse tense standoffs and persuade agitated individuals to act reasonably.

We should resist pressure at these incredibly difficult times to arm the police when it could in fact put our officers in more danger.

Arming the police would be a step in the wrong direction and would go against policing by consent and the history of unarmed policing in this country. I hope the Mayor & other politicians will resist pressure on this.

Rather than dwelling on the idea police with weapons or the fact that the officers killed were female, we should focus on what officers need: on risk assessment, training and when needed specialist backup. Let us not forget in this debate that the Met and other forces already have well trained specialist backup squads who are armed with guns and taser who should be called upon in potentially fatal shootings.

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Police officers should be armed

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Norman BrennanJenny Jones AMNeither argumenthas changed the most minds

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The murder of policewomen Fiona Bone and Nicola Hughes has led to increasing calls for officers to be armed as routine - despite senior officers saying the move would not help. The chief constable ...
The murder of policewomen Fiona Bone and Nicola Hughes has led to increasing calls for officers to be armed as routine - despite senior officers saying the move would not help. The chief constable ...
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09:00 AM on 09/21/2012
She didn't change my mind. Police armed is the potential for them to be taken off the officers and used else where or on the police officer.
This piece of filth that killed these officers should never see the light of day. He has lost his position as a human being and lost his human rights and should never, for any reason, be out of prison accept to go to his funeral.
05:30 AM on 09/21/2012
It must be better to have a gun and never use it than not have one and need it
04:08 AM on 09/21/2012
I can understand the call for police to be routinely armed after a tragedy like this but there are two main reasons why I disagreed before reading the two cases (one of which is mentioned).

The first is that, as Jones also points out, I strongly doubt it would have stopped this sort of tragedy. Unless police went into evey incident with their guns in hand with safety off, which in itself would be huge danger to the public, there would still be no protection against a premeditated surprise attack such as this.

The second is that, were I a criminal, I would see it as giving a stronger case to carry a gun myself. Again, this adds to the risk for both police and public.

Add to this that the overwhelming number of officers don't want it and around 7% would be minded to resign on the issue, the case seems pretty clear cut at the moment.

Not that I would consider my opinion set in stone. If statistics showed a strong case that gun crime was lower and police officers and public were safer in countries where guns were routinely carried, it would certainly gice pause for thought.

I note that in making his case, Brennan does not give any stats like this at all. A poor tactic when challenging the status quo, as you have to give hard evidence as to why things should change.
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11:12 PM on 09/20/2012
It's not an either/or argument as presented here. We already have armed police to meet situations where they're likely to be needed.

Arming all police officers will lead to an environment where they're more likely to be needed, more often.

There's a disturbing undertone to this issue as well. The implication that a police constable's life is more valuable than that of a member of the public, suggested by that if someone threatens a police constable that they're somehow more deserving of self protection by having access to a firearm.
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Simon Stylites
Dreamer, reader, writer, fool.
01:08 AM on 09/21/2012
If a member of the public threatens a police officer, they cease to be an ordinary member of the public, but become someone who has committed a criminal offence. Of course there are degrees in this offence. Telling a police officer you will punch him on the nose is one thing, but pointing and shooting a gun at a police officer is, most definitely, something else.

If we pay our police officers to “serve and protect” us – the general public, officers must be able to protect themselves in life threatening situations.
09:04 AM on 09/21/2012
They are more valuable. They potentially put their lives on the line every day on our behalf and there has to be a deterrant and a protection to keep them safe. I am not in favour of arming the police on a daily basis as there is the potential for the gun to be taken from the police and used.
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Simon Stylites
Dreamer, reader, writer, fool.
10:38 PM on 09/20/2012
It is unfortunate that whenever this question is asked, the arming of our police is always compared to the USA. USA has a “gun culture” that is grounded in its history and its constitution. The UK has neither of these factors.

If we should compare with other countries, it should be with lands such as Denmark, Sweden or even France. Are the incidents of gun related crime greater in these countries? Are the numbers of police officers killed by guns greater in these countries?

With respect to serving police officers’ attitudes to bearing guns, the fact that none of these police officers have been trained in the use of firearms must be considered. The comprehensive training that (is) will be necessary before issuing arms, hopefully will address most of their fears.

In the end though, the final argument must be: if it can be demonstrated that one police officer could have saved his or her life had they been armed, then all police officers must be trained to defend themselves with firearms.
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Raymond Soltysek
09:36 PM on 09/20/2012
The police don't want to be. End of argument.
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lettuce562019
08:48 PM on 09/20/2012
All serving officers are trained in the knowledge and implementation of the conflict of resolution module. The purpose of this module allows officers to determine whether or not each situation is a passive,or passive with resistance or a violent situation that determines the use of force be it the use of CS spray,.Baton and should the officer feel that he or she and members of the publics lives are in danger or threat then any means possible to protect themselves and the public from serious harm or death. At all times their action should be smart decisive and justifiable, therefore i fully support the Arming of all police officers with Tasers and the number of SO19 armed officers made four fold across the country also install hanging for all acts of terrorism, murder, and class A drug distribution, Its time the police regain control We have the finest forensic teams in the world including street cameras and cctv looking at us all day and night long we have DNA and we have a brilliant Police force and Special Constabulary in the world let us use them to the best degree possible and make our streets safe again Lobbying for hanging to be returned for the murder of police officers alone is wrong but should be right across the board and then we have fair situation for all. My thoughts rest with the families of all murdered police officers and im grateful my family didnt have to suffer that way
09:54 PM on 09/20/2012
Are you insane?
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lettuce562019
07:55 AM on 09/21/2012
are you ignorant?  or just a man of few words.
05:34 AM on 09/21/2012
Good call apart from we dont have a police force anymore we have a police service there in lies the problem
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Nathan0316
TrueBlueTory Age quod agis
07:27 PM on 09/20/2012
Having worked with police officers while a security officer at large outdoor events and as a front-line door supervisor, I have to be honest and say that the thought of most of them being allowed to carry fire-arms as a matter of course fills me with a dread I cannot even begin to articulate. Quite frankly, most young police officers are bad enough to deal with as they are, I guarantee there would soon be a large number of "accidental" deaths, as most of them can barely be trusted to tie their own shoe-laces let alone handle a gun.

Having been shot myself by someone who didn't know what they were doing I can tell you the most dangerous place to put a gun is in the hands of someone who thinks it makes them look "hard". There's a reason for every gun-death in this country there are nearly 13 in the USA (that figure has nothing to do with population, if the USA had 62 million people in it they would still have 13 times as many gun-deaths) and it's because the more guns there are, the more people die.

Keep things the way they are, with properly trained specialist units, not the average copper on the street.
11:23 AM on 09/21/2012
...I guarantee there would soon be a large number of "accidental" deaths,..

I agree and find the prospect very worrying...