Tottenham Riot: The Police Seemed Helpless, Witnesses Say

Tottenham

First Posted: 07/08/11 13:36 Updated: 07/10/11 11:12

After riots shook Tottenham last night, questions are being asked about the police behaviour and the root cause of the violence.

The riots began after residents staged a protest outside the police station on Tottenham High Road to protest at the shooting of Mark Duggan, who was killed by police on Thursday.

As community leaders condemned the outburst, which saw 26 police officers injured, three police cars and a double-decker bus burnt out and over 40 arrests, a youth leader who was at the scene said there were questions to answer about why the violence was not contained.

Symeon Brown, co-founder of grassroots youth movement Haringey Young People Empowered said tension between young people and the police had existed for generations.

Brown said the peaceful protest soon escalated: “The murder of Mark Duggan led to a peaceful protest, it escalated into violence and where the police should have contained the area they didn't contain it. They created a line to contain the station but they didn't contain the riots.”

But rank-and-file police officers have defended themselves. Paul McKeever, chair of Police Federation predicted last year that in times of economic uncertainty that there would be more disturbances, and was criticised by the Home Secretary Theresa May for his comments at the time. This morning he told HuffPost UK:

“Our thoughts are with the officers that have been injured. It seems as though we’re in a position in the police service today where we’re damned if we do and damned if we don’t.

“We’re criticised this morning for being too light-touch initially with the demonstration that was taking place in Tottenham, and yet I’m sure if we’d been less sensitive at the beginning, we’d have been criticised for that if things had gone wrong similarly.”

The riots echoed violence in the area in 1985 when a policeman was murdered during riots in Broadwater Farm, and another officer shot after a woman died during a police raid.

Police historian and former chief constable Tim Brain told Huff Post UK that there needed to be an inquiry: “If you look at the riots of the 1980s, there were general social disadvantaged communities, high unemployment, which acted as a general background to the disorder to the 1980s.

“But then there were the flash points which caused riots. It's very hard to draw a strict delineation between the social disadvantages and the trigger points.

“In the 1980s Mrs. Thatcher played down the social disadvantages and played up the trigger points. There are some potential similarities between what we're seeing now and what we're seeing in the 1980s.”

Youth worker Symeon Brown is worried Saturday's unrest could continue tonight. “When it happened in 1985 they said it could not happen again. To say it couldn't happen again now would disregard history."

"I wouldn't want to make any loaded statements about what could happen next."

He said there was a feeling of “them and us” between the police and young people. "The tension has been there for generations. They get passed down and then there's a feeling of them and us.

“There have been other alleged incidents of police brutality, the death of [rap artist] Smiley Culture and Kingsley Burrell. A number of incidents this year have made people feel that police are above the law.”

The 23-year-old who witnessed the riots said there was a sense of “collective energy” as shops were looted and fires were set on Saturday evening.

“Inside it was really quite surreal, previously when you have such a collection of young people there's a tension. I didn't take part in any looting. The police could have contained it. I do feel that they didn't contain it well at all. There are policing questions.”

One witness who fled the scene told HuffPost UK youths were screaming, shouting and throwing bottles.

Tony, a 28-year-old hairdresser said: “I was in a restaurant in Tottenham at about midnight, people were running amok, throwing bottles and screaming and swearing. I was shocked, I didn't know what was going on. Then police came down and I ran to my car and drove off as soon as possible. As I was driving away I saw people throwing things at the police and swearing.

“I was surprised and scared, no one expects that.”

32-year-old Alim Kamara, a youth worker said he saw 12 year-olds and teenage girls looting.

“I saw children as young as 12 going down the road with laptops, plasma TVs, hoodied up with bandannas on their faces. By that point the bus had been set on fire, then they robbed a jewellery shop. People were coming out with £2,000 worth of jewellery, they could barely even carry the jewellery. Then I came home and saw it on TV, where they said things were calming down.

“You had a tug of war going, young people would race into a pub to get bottles, throw them at police, they would move back and then forward. It didn’t get contained until 5am this morning when they came from White Hart Lane. That’s when they cornered people.

“It was crazy. I saw girls with their head wrapped in bandanas using t shirts to cover their faces throwing bottles and looting. 14 year old girls. It was just like the people versus the police. there was a sense of unity. It didn’t matter if you were black, white, green or blue everyone was together.

Eyewitness reports suggest the violence erupted after a 16 year old girl was hit with batons by police after she threw rocks at officers.

David Lammy, the MP for Tottenham said the heart had been ripped out of the community.

“The post office, fitness shop, newsagents... council buildings, smashed to pieces by mindless people last night. Many of whom are not from Tottenham and have come from far beyond this community intent on causing violence. “

In a statement on Sunday morning he said there were “questions” about the policing of the riots.

Symeon Brown agreed that many of those involved in the violence in Tottenham were from nearby areas such as Wood Green and Edmonton.

“That's why they were able to destroy the area, because it wasn't theirs. We need our leaders to really support a kind of process, not only one of reconciliation but one of compensation. We also need a return to investment in public services."

For those who live and work in Tottenham, there are questions about the relationship between police and young people in the run up to the violence. Brown says the council-run initiatives for young people cut back as part of the government’s austerity programme were only part of the story.

"The cuts are a parallel narrative a part of psychology which says 'they don't care about us'. I wouldn't say the cuts caused this. The biggest thing to take away from this is that the police should have contained it. Clearly it wasn't the police who were breaking into shops but the police have questions to answer about how it was able to spread.”

Fellow youth worker Kamara agrees: “In Tottenham so much has happened with the young people and the police there’s a lot of animosity. The police harrass young people. the way they speak to them it’s sometimes a bit disgraceful. You have these kind of situations, sometimes you get racial slurs from police officers.

“I think this could happen in another area. The police seemed helpless yesterday. I was shocked by what happened. People are saying this was inevitable. For me I’m shocked and saddened by it. It’s painful to watch if you work with young people and see this is what it’s come to it’s like, where do we go from here? Now the animosity between the police and young people has only grown. It’s doubled.

“There’s people who are doing things in the community to prevent these kind of things and their work is in vain. Our local youth centres have been closed down. The places we used to give young people something to do have gone. If they’ve been taken away how do we get to young people? How do we stop them rioting if there’s nowhere for them to go?”

FOLLOW HUFFPOST UK POLITICS

After riots shook Tottenham last night, questions are being asked about the police behaviour and the root cause of the violence. The riots began after residents staged a protest outside the police ...
After riots shook Tottenham last night, questions are being asked about the police behaviour and the root cause of the violence. The riots began after residents staged a protest outside the police ...
 
 
  • Comments
  • 1,033
  • Pending Comments
  • 0
  • View FAQ
Comments are closed for this entry
View All
Favorites
Recency  | 
Popularity
Page: 1 2 3 4 5  Next ›  Last »  (20 total)
Mike Rock
Right wingers, prepare to lose debate.
12:34 on 10/08/2011
There's no excuse for it, but there is an explanation: The UK and the USA are now at the bottom of the barrel when it comes to social mobility. We both now have terrible records at enabling people to rise above the class they were born into. Add to that the great Bushwack which was aimed at making sure that the top 25-50,000 people in the world control almost all the world's wealth, with 2.5 million children being added to the rolls of poverty in the USA because of Bush's Depression, you get not only a feeling of no hope of rising, but also a cold, dread fear of homelessness and starvation.

The ONLY surprising thing is that this hasn't also happened in the USA.
05:55 on 10/08/2011
Yes, all of that. But what really drives most of them is excitement. They want to be part of a Big Thing. These kids aren't starving or undergoing hardship of the kind often seen a couple of generations ago. But they are bored, poorly educated, and longing to be a part of something that will grab attention and relieve the monotony of their ignorant and pointless lives. Most soccer hooligans are of this type. Watchers of zero-brain reality television, denied nothing their stupid parents can give them, and lacking almost everything that makes life worthwhile. And I do believe there is nothing you can do for them except contain them and find grunt work for them to earn their dole. But watch for the few that will try to climb out of it, and help them.
Mike Rock
Right wingers, prepare to lose debate.
12:35 on 10/08/2011
There's also no social mobility at all in the UK, almost as little as in the USA. Both countries are now at the bottom of the barrel when it comes to social mobility within industrialized nations. Not to excuse the behavior, but to focus on root causes.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
06:40 on 09/08/2011
You can't really stop a riot. You sort of have to just wait til its over. The rioters do get tired, and when the sun is coming up they sort of stop on their own.

I don't get what is meant by "they have no place to go" - don't they have homes, parents, friends? They should go to jail if they destroy property, that's a place for them to go.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
angelavictoria5
Life is short. Do all the good you can!
06:18 on 09/08/2011
A job and a sense of purpose along with the inner worth that creates does prevent society's meltdown. It sounds like the rioters were young teens so where are mum and daddy? They were rioting for free education not long ago. It would save the country a lot of money to educate or employ. Make those opportunities contingent upon civil obedience.
03:09 on 09/08/2011
It’s simple – keep social programs intact and generous for the elderly – because they vote. Slash education and social programs for youth –they revolt. Yet I get richer and richer and richer……..
hatchetfac
I love contradictions!
01:33 on 09/08/2011
From the article: "If they’ve been taken away how do we get to young people? How do we stop them rioting if there’s nowhere for them to go?” Oh, I don't know. Clearly there is a place for them to go after they leave the morgue. Indeed, I suspect as you begin planting them wholesale the rioting will quickly stop. It's really not that complictaed!
21:08 on 08/08/2011
What's wrong with our youth today is parents are no longer using good parenting skills. For every underage kid who gets into trouble, put the parents in jail. My mother's parents were dirt poor, yet they didn't raise idiots, they raised honest hardworking people who only wanted a better life for their children then they had. I love listening to their old stories. They were adventurous and inventive. Maybe it's time to get rid of the cell phones, ipads, TV, computers, etc. It seems like a catalyst for what's wrong with the world.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
slowdad
Long time Democrat now Republican
23:45 on 08/08/2011
I was the youngest of 7 and my father was a Tennessee coal miner while my mother stayed at home as expected in those days. We starved and lived in a 2 room shack and none of us kids got into trouble. My 3 brother became police officers and I have been a police officer for 36 years. Its not the poverty that creates criminals its the lack of discipline and a lack of instilled morals. Maybe in my case it was the prayers and Bible stories I was told in the first and second grades. Schools can't do that these days. So. I guess we are stuck with the young criminals our children are going to school with these days.
00:34 on 09/08/2011
I feel your pain slowdad. The working classes of America are treated like dirt. I remember reading a book called Rocket Boys. Homer Hickam the author recalls an event from his childhood when one of his classmates disappears from the school run by the mining Co. It turned out that this young girls father was killed in a mining accident. Her Mother and two sisters lived in housing supplied by the mining Co. On the day of her Fathers funeral her mother received a hand delivered notice giving her and her children one week to vacate their home!
I HATE CORPORATISM. IT IS DEVICE-IV AND DESTRUCTIVE. IT FEEDS ON THE BLOOD AND SWEAT OF THE WORKING CLASSES OF WHICH I AM A PROUD MEMBER... "Tiocfaidh Ar La" = In Irish: OUR DAY WILL COME!
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
MJinCanada
Safe from zombies until my 2nd cup of coffee
04:06 on 09/08/2011
Yes, well, Maggie Thatcher sold the nationalized coal mines in England, Scotland and Wales to her rich conservative buddies, who ran them into the ground and closed them down for tax deductions, throwing thousands of dads out of work, onto the dole and into the pubs. It's a lot harder to keep kids respectful and honest when there are no jobs and Dad's feeling lost. The same thing happened during the Industrial Revolution and during the Great Depression.

While I don't condone the violence one bit, I know that the UK doesn't have enough jobs, and young people are frustrated with their limited choices. The bright ones, and the ones with the strongest parents, won't go out and riot, but the ones with too little education and imagination will lash out indiscriminately.
photo
mrsentinel
Ricktatorship begins Oct. 2012. Are you ready?
20:39 on 08/08/2011
I remember The Clash used to sing about things like this...
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
19:08 on 08/08/2011
A sad but predictable outcome to the socialist nanny state when it runs out of others peoples money. And THIS is what obama wants for America.
This comment has been removed.
21:10 on 08/08/2011
So true. Kids with nothing to do, no purpose in life, create these acts. I blame the parents first. It's funny, they blame the govt, yet want the govt to run every aspect of their life. Kinda like have your cake and eat it too. Sounds like something right out of the french revolution.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
22:23 on 08/08/2011
well said - great point about giving the govt complete control over your life and then complaining that you have no control and they have not done what you want.
23:05 on 08/08/2011
It is happening in Detroit and Milwaukee as we speak. Along our southern borders we have a problem that will not go away without some time and attention. I figured someone will try to blame this on Bush. How lame this has become.
18:52 on 08/08/2011
Chocolate City part two.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
smp276dp
free us from the craziness
18:45 on 08/08/2011
This goes way beyond the shooting of one man. This is pent up tension from a culmination of things. The economy lack of jobs and people feeling frustrating over a number of other issues.
photo
philliplojek
Irritating liberals one at a time.
19:45 on 08/08/2011
So you burn, riot and burgle?
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
smp276dp
free us from the craziness
20:41 on 08/08/2011
Apparently yes they did.
23:09 on 08/08/2011
Good point Phillip...at least in LA they burnt their own homes and could not figure out why they had no place to sleep. Educated bunch out their...I lived in Orange County at the time and watched as they disgraced themselves.
17:19 on 08/08/2011
Its pure and simple, the late Mr. Duggan was a gansta. You live by the sword you, well you know the rest.
16:51 on 08/08/2011
It takes three to make a fight, two to do the fighting and a THIRD PARTY to instigate it. Find the third party and expose them, and the fight can always be resolved. Grow up world. Ever hear of divide and conquer?
photo
philaphillies99
"What difference does it make?" -H.C.
17:04 on 08/08/2011
Please stop with the 3rd party conspiracy nonsense. This is about a bunch of thugs getting free clothes and electronics. Seriously, wake up.
17:36 on 08/08/2011
It is also about a bunch of thugs getting free clothes and electronics and getting even with the man and bla bla bla. I agree with all that. But that still doesn't negate the fact that there is always a third party involved who is whipping up hatred among the masses. Hitler was a master at it, Stalin was a vertuoso. And bankers in old western days got the sheep herders and the cattlemen fighting to get their land. They pulled it on Buffalo Bill when he accused the Washington land grabbers of fomenting war with the indians and if it wasn't for certain journalists who exposed the lies about him, he would have died in oblivion. Go watch the movie, fiction I know, Mr Smith goes to Washington. Find the third party, resolve the conflict. There are many people who don't want this Phenomena known about.
This comment has been removed.
16:40 on 08/08/2011
Here is a novel idea. When people riot in support of a toublemaker, blame the rioters. If Policeman A shoots Persn B during a distrubance, that in no way justifies other people burning busses or stores or throwing rocks at Policeman X.