Welfare Reform: Benefit Cap 'May Create Couple Penalty' Says IFS

Ids Csa Charges Welfare Reform Bill

First Posted: 3/02/2012 07:03 Updated: 3/02/2012 08:08   PA

The government's benefit cap may create a "couple penalty" in the welfare system, encouraging spouses and partners to live apart, a leading economic think-tank warned today.

The controversial £26,000 limit on the total amount of benefits claimed by any household was described as "incoherent" by the Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) in an analysis which warned of undesirable consequences.

The government yesterday insisted it would press ahead with the cap, overturning a defeat in the House of Lords, but offered the concession of a nine-month grace period for families to find work or move home before the limit is imposed.

About 67,000 households across Britain are expected to lose an average of £83 each week in benefits when the cap - set at £350 a week for childless single people and £500 for others - is implemented in 2013/14, said the IFS.

The move will save £290 million a year from the government's £18 billion welfare bill, but critics warn it will drive larger families into cheaper accommodation and make areas of cities such as London unaffordable for those claiming benefits.

IFS research economist Robert Joyce said in a paper published today that it would hit all couples with four children and no private income who pay rent of £127 a week or more - a "plausible" level for privately-rented homes or social housing tenants in London.
Smaller families in high-rent areas could also be hit, he said.

The government believes that the change will encourage families to move to cheaper homes or take up paid work.

But Joyce noted that it could also reduce fertility rates and encourage partners to live separately.

"A... possible behavioural impact is for fewer people to cohabit, since the benefits cap is to apply at the household level, and hence living apart could split benefits across households and mean that neither is subject to a cap," wrote Joyce.

"This 'couple penalty' is presumably something the government would not be keen on, as it has said that it wishes to reduce couple penalties in the tax and benefit system."

Fertility rates could also drop, because the cap "will effectively reduce state financial support for some large families", wrote Mr Joyce, adding: "If this were the main intended impact, though, one would expect to see the policy affecting only new claimants of child-contingent benefits."

He also questioned whether a cap targeting couples with several children or high rent was an appropriate response to concerns about "excessive" benefit payments.

"If (the government) thinks that the benefit system is giving some families a level of entitlement that is too high, it must believe that some benefit rates are inappropriately high," wrote Joyce.

"The best-targeted response would surely be to change those benefit rates...

"The apparent simplicity of instead just placing a cap on total benefit receipt might look appealing, and may well be politically expedient.
"But it seems incoherent for a Government to set a system of benefits which it evidently thinks gives some families excessive entitlements, and to then attempt to 'right this wrong' with a cap. If starting from scratch, this is surely not the approach one should want to take."

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The government's benefit cap may create a "couple penalty" in the welfare system, encouraging spouses and partners to live apart, a leading economic think-tank warned today. The controversial £26,...
The government's benefit cap may create a "couple penalty" in the welfare system, encouraging spouses and partners to live apart, a leading economic think-tank warned today. The controversial £26,...
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10:44 AM on 02/04/2012
’’The UK benefit system is beyond belief, it encourages unemployed poor, young people to act irresponsible.’’ Thanks to Yvette Cooper, the benefit system got out of control. The housing benefit abolish it.

Can you name any other country in the world that gives £26,000 pay without paying tax for sitting at home and doing nothing ?I think we are over-looking something here. The UK government is talking about CAPPING benefits at 500 a week. What are they able to claim at the moment!!?
02:12 PM on 02/04/2012
Before you start complaining about blaming the Unemployed for being Unemployed, do try telling those Unemployed, and the Government WHERE there are to be found 3 Million plus additional Job's, and name those whom are financing these Mystery Job's for the Public cause to save State Benefit hand - outs???
06:17 PM on 02/04/2012
What about Germany, France, the Czech republic, and the Russian Federation, plenty jobs, over there!
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whapgra
06:50 PM on 02/08/2012
If you are asuming trhat everyone in reciept of benefit gets £26,000 per year you are 100% wrong.Employment and Support Allowance (ESA)Single person Under 25 – assessment phase £53.45 , 25 or over £67.50 Any age – main phase £67.50.
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08:28 PM on 02/03/2012
The only answer is to rent cap the ridiculous rent situation in much of the UK because this is where much of this money is going. London would be without ambulancemen, hospital porters, etc if these huge benefits wernt paid to their landlords as they wouldn't be able to live in London on their wages. Outside London the amount of fulltime workers who recieve more in benefits from the state then wages from their employer is ridiculous. The tax payer is paying their wages not their employers. Why should tax payers subsidise poverty employers and make them rich? If the tax payers are paying more in benefits to a firms workers then they get in wages then the tax payer has effectivly got a stake in the firm its time to call it in. Why should tax payers subsidise super rich landlords?
04:39 PM on 02/03/2012
For the life of me, I don't know how they conjure up these figures of £350! Really?

Actually, no, not lucky them at all! Single persons JSA is around £65 per week. The youngest of the young, those poor kids just out of school and unable to find a job, well they get nothing. Then if they have stayed on at school, or college, or uni, but still cannot find employment, and then are living back at home with mum and dad because they cannot afford the rent, they get nothing if mum and dad, or anyone else in the house has a job, because if anyone in the household is working over 16 hours per week, their income is used as a combined household income, and would come off of any entitlement that a claimant could be awarded.
04:16 PM on 02/03/2012
Let's remember, that should you Foster a Child then you would be Claiming around £350 Per - Week, Per - Child.
Therefore, should you have more than 2 Children of your own, then why would you want to Support a Large Family ( including the Husband, and Wife ), upon a Cap of £500 Per - Week including any Housing Benefit's that may total up to over a half of what you will be able to Claim Per - Week in the future???

The Cap therefore, will NOT be Workable in Town's, and Cities, or High priced living Areas of the UK where Private accommodation is driven by Higher Market Values for Rent, and further higher living Cost in general.
We shall therefore be seeing medium sized Families up-wards breaking - up, while costing the State far MORE than at present in real terms which will drain away further Cash from many Local Authorities Budgets, to both Re-House Adults, and to Foster more Children alike.

With Benefit Capping, it is imposing a penalty upon the affording of large Family sizes.
09:00 AM on 02/04/2012
@broncohardman : With Benefit Capping, it is imposing a penalty upon the affording of large Family sizes

Surely you're not advocating that the working tax-payer subsidises those out of work who want a large family?

If you can't afford a lot of children the answer is simple - don't have them. Unfortunately, though, it seems that the attitude of I want so I must have - in other words rights without responsibilities - is prevalent amongst the feckless of this country who seem to expect others to subsidise their 'right' to a large family for which they themselves cannot provide!
02:00 PM on 02/04/2012
Another daft person that thinks it is only those that have deliberately set out too screw the System, that are amongst those with the attitude of ( Quote ) " I want so I must have".

While indeed it may well be true that some have adopted this mentality, others have previously been hard working individuals whom in the Goods Times had decided to have what some of us might call a large family, whereby the main Bread-Winner has been made Redundant / Unemployed through no fault of their own, thereby leaving these Families today to recourse by way of Claiming State Benefits as of their subsidised Rights.

So why should these Families be tarnished as being freckless by the likes of you, or anyone else for that matter, unless you can invent 3 plus million MORE Job's, that so far have not been created to allow the Unemployed to return back into Employment.
03:59 PM on 02/04/2012
You clearly don't understand what you said in your original Post, for to Quote what you said - " If you can't afford a lot of children the answer is simple - don't have them" - Unquote.

What you have forgot, is that what may have been an affordable objective of affording while a Family had a Bread - Winning member in Employment, this very much changes with circumstances due to Unemployment, whereby by your suggestion that what was once a reasonable Act to have a large family while in Employment, is otherwise re-classified and reflected differently by affecting their Rights to Benefits while Unemployed, as we move on from what one would want objectively while in Employment, into a state of becoming Unemployed, since at NO time have I ever advocated in any way that I support what might be termed as, Force Family Breeding to maximise State Benefit Payments.
Therefore, it is NOT a Question of wanting a large family, since beforehand it has already become an issue of having a large family in this instance which IS fully material at cost to the Tax - Payer, since they are the ones whom will paying the Bill of Conservative Cut - Backs, and Redundancy, as well as the State Benefits.
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ideaville
I have sexdaily, I mean dyslexia, Danm!
03:47 PM on 02/03/2012
How the hell does someone get 4 kids with no private income? The fact is that we do not have enough money to pay for the current welfare system. Where is the problem in those on benefits being asked to work for their money on community based projects such as cleaning the streets, looking after the elderly etc. It is very wrong in this day and age to be able to take but not give anything back.
04:36 PM on 02/03/2012
It is always very easy to make any daft Statements like saying that anyone upon State Benefits should Work for their State Benefits, for indeed should they do any Work related task then People like Road Sweepers, and Dustmen etc: will be made Redundant so that their Job's can be undertaken and "Freed - Up" to support the Unemployed into Work positions too enable them to Claim their Benefit entitlements.

For indeed, I wonder just how many of those still in Employment WILL be calling for their respective Job Descriptions to be changed and added onto the List of "Freely" paid for Job's too be undertaken by those Claiming State Benefits, so that they can join those already Unemployed???

The Answer of course is to create 3 Million plus more "New" - Job's, but the problem is, WHERE, since Unemployment is still RISING in the UK.
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ideaville
I have sexdaily, I mean dyslexia, Danm!
09:33 PM on 02/03/2012
There are many jobs in our communities not being done for lack of resources, to suggest that asking someone to put something back into their community instead of watching daytime TV, would cause unemployment is a feeble way defend the feckless.
02:19 PM on 02/04/2012
Lack of Resources translates directly into a Lack of Money to provide our Communities with additional employment.
This has nothing whatsoever to do with any People unemployed being feckless in the face of any absent of employment for the asking, or taking.
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Kehlan Sutai Inigan
03:42 PM on 02/03/2012
set at £350 a week for childless single people? Or £500 for couples?

huh? Just how does a childless single person get anywhere near that in benefits? I'd really like to know so I can apply. When I was unemployed last year I got no help at all as my husband earned £210 a week... apparently that was enough for us to pay our mortgage, council tax, electric bill etc and still have money left over to eat.
03:20 PM on 02/03/2012
This benefit cap on large families is a MUST HAVE. People have to make decisions on whether they can afford having kids and not expect the state to fund it. Its a disgrace... single girls having kids so they move up the ladder on aid and housing, Asian and Pakistani having huge families with the state supporting their greed... NO WAY !!!!
01:24 PM on 02/03/2012
Does that mean that benefits wont go up with inflation every year so people on benefits will get poorer and poorer as the years go by while everything else goes up?
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ideaville
I have sexdaily, I mean dyslexia, Danm!
03:48 PM on 02/03/2012
They could always try working. Do you think my earnings go up with inflation?
04:53 PM on 02/03/2012
In many Areas of the UK there are upwards to over 35 People chasing 1 Job Vacancy, while in some other Areas there are NO Job Vacancies to be found, at all.
So if it was so simply to create more Jobs by now, then don't you think that at lease one Minister in Government would have found a way to invent the required missing Jobs by now???
05:00 PM on 02/03/2012
There was a woman in her late 40's on the local news last week who was made redundant,she has applied for 100's of jobs and they say shes over qualified or she doesn't get a response the poor woman said she is willing to do anything but know one will employ her shes been trying to get work for 9 months. Not everyone has a choice to be on benefits and most of them get no where near 26,000 a year. my mum is nearly 60 and she gets £170 a fortnight she has £15 left for food for the fortnight and she cant afford to put her heating on.
12:43 PM on 02/03/2012
the answer is that all benefits for the unemployed should be scrapped. if you are unemployed you should receive a sum equal to the minimum wage x 40. on that you pay tax and ni. no free prescriptions no free/ reduced travel etc no extra for heating no tax credits. no housing benefits.
in effect you get what you would receive if you were working. nothing extra for your children. if you work you dont get an extra amount per child you have so the same should apply if unemployed.
i would also make it that for the first 3 months you get an amount equal to your last wage which decreases each month until you are on minimum wage. this would give people a safety net whilst looking for a new job.
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rabidrightwatch
Green lefty & active environmentalist
02:20 PM on 02/03/2012
...you forgot to say 'welcome to the 19th Century'...
02:35 PM on 02/03/2012
clearly you are not a working taxpayer. surprised you are out of bed so early in the day
03:48 PM on 02/03/2012
mm i think you need to accept that people have different opinions, it is called freedom, clearly a concept you are not familiar with. it is clear from your tag that you are a bigot and need to start treating people with respect.
12:18 AM on 02/04/2012
how would it give them a safety net you need free prescriptions if you have permanent health conditions like my husband who is not unemployed, what if you live in an area like the old mining towns and there are no jobs no buses that run late not everywhere has a good bus service like london , hope your never unemployed ill you would not like it if it were you
04:56 PM on 02/04/2012
if you have a permanent health condition , dependant on what it is you qualify for free prescriptions whether working or not. also people qualify if their income is below a set level. others can buy a card for £10 per month. many people who work and have a low income have to pay for prescriptions their overall income is often less than that received by the unemployed.
i live in a rural area there is no public transport i have a long term illness and due to it i have had to leave several jobs over the last few years.
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rabidrightwatch
Green lefty & active environmentalist
12:09 PM on 02/03/2012
At the heart of this debate is the amount 'set aside' to pay the rent of those unfortunate enough to be on benefits.

Several MPs have suggested - and I agree with them wholeheartedly - that rent control should be established as soon as practicable.
This is not a Tory-led government suggestion, by the way; merely by those who think that taxpayers' money should not be used to line the pockets of private landlords.

Almost every other country in Europe has rent controls, where local councils set a fair rent per square metre of floor space applicable to their town or region.
No landlord is permitted to exceed this level, however they can offer accommodation below this level if they so chose.
If a landlord tries to exceed the rate, the occupier is automatically entitled to complain, and the rent control officer then, in turn, requires the landlord to tow the line.
If they don't comply, they are not permitted to offer accommodation at all, until they do.

You remove the exploitative landlord aspect almost completely, whilst at the same time you both provide accommodation at a reasonable rate, which, in turn, reduces the burden on the taxpayer.

We seem remarkably reluctant to introduce such basic controls - I wonder why?

Rent controls, suitably and rigorously enforced and administered, work in most EU countries, so why is it such an insurmountable undertaking here...??

Perhaps the Government is frightened stiff of the 'buy to rent' mob..??
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ideaville
I have sexdaily, I mean dyslexia, Danm!
03:57 PM on 02/03/2012
I completely agree that many private landlords need to be chucked off their gravy train. However, in the short term they could easily cause quite a housing shortage if they wanted to.
A cap on the amount payable as proposed by the government is much easier to administer than going through the minefield of legally enforceable "rent controls". Once landlords in rundown areas learn "what the market will bear" instead of holding the local council to ransom, the rents should fall into line.
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rabidrightwatch
Green lefty & active environmentalist
04:13 PM on 02/03/2012
you could be right about a temporary housing shortage (don't we have one of those already?) but if 'buy to rent' people don't receive vast rental payments, this may persuade them to sell their properties.
This could flood the market with houses, which will signficantly reduce the unit cost.. so perhaps more people could actually afford to buy them? ... that's my secondary point.
11:59 AM on 02/03/2012
What they should concentrate on is immigration, which is costing billions in benefits.
Also is this cap coming in so the rich don't have to have them living in their areas?
12:18 PM on 02/03/2012
No one coming into this country should get benefits, housing of health care until they have paid into the pot for al least 5 years. They should not be allowed in unless they have a job to go to, money to rent or buy house/flat and health insurance. When Britains go abroad they have to take out health insurance so should anyone coming here
08:30 PM on 02/03/2012
FULLY AGREE - no health insurance - no entry into the UK!
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Lord Justice Wolf
11:59 AM on 02/03/2012
This pratt seems to be in competition with Cameron? Who can achieve the status of most hated Politician by the General public. The Elite who lets face it are the investors in the markets have lost money hand over fist through Greed, there own Greed and fool hardy naivety and now they want to recoup the losses the Yank Bankers took from them. They want you, unemployed, employed semi retired, retired, on a pension or disabled to pay, they want everything from you and then some and they don't care how they get it, and they even say, even if that makes me unpopular??? There appears to be a race for the title of Mr Unpopular 2012.
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Lord Justice Wolf
11:52 AM on 02/03/2012
This is to cause a massive divide in society, lets face it £285m saving out of £18b spent is peanuts compared to the social damage and class divide that this will cause. This does not and will not just affect unemployed people that are unemployed now? Economists predict unemployment to rise tenfold over the next 9 months let alone 2013/2014, so a pre-emptive strike now making the Cap and gaining public support now is a boost. But short sighted employed who think this is a great idea will soon be eating that support when they lose there job through no reason of there own. They actively admit that communities in and around London will have to move out from homes they potentially have lived in there entire lives. This is also about snatching those homes were people have rights as a tenant to stay, but under the new Law those rights will be forfeited and they will grab those homes for them selves or there families. The Met Police have already ran tests to show how affective they are at locking down London. The Elite will snatch real estate in and around London. They will you 9 months to find work or you WILL have to leave? We are British, Immigrants don't get 9 months to come to this country and get a job or leave do they? No they get come to this country and stay here and we will pay you benefits for life?
10:55 AM on 02/03/2012
£350 per week for a childless single person. Lucky them - I'm a pensioner who has paid into the system the whole of my working life and I get the princely sum of (approx) £155 per week. Wish I was young enough to be on benefits! I wonder why consecutive governments think pensioners can live on so much less than younger people.
11:41 AM on 02/03/2012
This will include Rachman like rents.
12:22 PM on 02/03/2012
I have just retired in December and I have been awarded £137 a week to live on and pay my bills. My utility bills are £100 per month, I still have the other bills to pay and I am at the moment paying full rent and full council tax until the council decides how much I will have to pay. Ok I will get money back from the council when they have worked it out but I cannot afford to pay this upfront that I am actually looking to go back to work and have 2 interview within the next week or so
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ideaville
I have sexdaily, I mean dyslexia, Danm!
04:51 PM on 02/04/2012
I wish you luck and hope that you find a job that you can enjoy. It is a national scandal that your taxes are being used to support the households with 3 generations of families that have never worked.
10:23 AM on 02/03/2012
if you put a cap on private rental rates, this would benefit all, why? it means that hard working tax payers can then afford to live in those expensive area's, ( they're only expensive because fat cat land lords have used the system for a high life) also those staying on benefits knowing they have been priced out of the job market by these fat cats. Face it they just want to live like the rest of us, but the system has been FUBAR. There will also be those who can't be arsed to work or waste life as chavs, That's why we have a legal system to deal with scum who stereo type all on benefits.
Also capping the housing market would allow first time buyers on the market. my first house was £33,000 15 years ago now valued at £175.000 this a shocking example. I know many people with at least 3 to 4 houses each, easy money they said told me to do the same. Just cap it and free up these homes before its to late.