David Starkey: Rochdale Asian Grooming Gang Were 'Acting Within Cultural Norms'

Posted: 11/05/2012 16:12 Updated: 11/05/2012 16:12

David Starkey
David Starkey is at the centre of controversy again

David Starkey has once again found himself at the centre of controversy after saying that group of Asian men jailed for the sexual exploitation of vulnerable young girls were merely "acting within their cultural norms."

The historian claimed that the nine convicted men, one of whom was from Afghanistan, and the rest of whom were of Pakistani origin, behaved the way they did because "nobody ever explained to them" that treating women in this way was unacceptable, reports The Guardian.

He was speaking to a group of private school headmasters at a conference in Brighton, during which he inferred that had the men been taught British history, it would have changed their behaviour.

"Nobody ever explained to them that the history of women in Britain was once rather similar to that in Pakistan and it had changedhe told the group, reports The Telegraph.

The victims of the gang, who were all white, were plied with cigarettes and alcohol before being passed around the group of men for sex. During the trial, the court heard how one victim was forced to have sex with 20 men in one night whilst drunk. Another was so inebriated that she vomited over the side of the bed while two men had sex with her.

However Starkey, who is no stranger to polemical debate, told a group of private school headmasters that the case was an example of "what happens [when a country like Britain] has no sense of common identity."

The historian's claims are particularly controversial as debate following the men's conviction has focussed on the role of their race in the type of crime they committed.

The leader of the Ramadhan Foundation accused Pakistani community elders of "burying their heads in the sand" on the issue of on-street grooming, stating that it was a significant problem for the British Pakistani community.

Martin Narey told the BBC Today programme that there was "troubling evidence" of Pakistani men being involved in certain types of sexual abuse crimes.

However Keith Vaz, chair of the home affairs select committee said that their crimes could be attributed to "no particular race or religion."

His view was supported by CEOP and police who said that grooming was "not a racial issue."

Dr Starkey was at the centre of controversy last year for suggesting that the London riots happened as a result of “black culture” and that in today’s society “whites have become black”.

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01:07 AM on 05/14/2012
Before we knew that they were Asian, could I have predicted what the faces of these gang members would look like? It oozes out of this horrible case!

People who by their actions demonstrate that they have no intention ever of becoming British, should be packed on the first rocket to bloody Mars. We English don't want them. None of Britain wants them. So why do our governments make limp excuses for failing to defend our borders and to deal with the abuse of Britain and, worse, of its vulnerable young girls!!! Scum should be washed down the plug'ole with the rest of the gash!

'Our' governments find plenty of tax payers' money to spend on bombing women and children, but when it comes to keeping Britain British and preventing the invasion of our own country ... why, suddenly they can't afford it!

The three main parties are all cronies in the same rotten set-up. If Britain is to remain British, then we need a Ron Paul to save our just-about-still-lovely country!

and a new term for vile foreign rapists of our girls. Because these scum aren't 'men' - they don't warrant the accolade! Vile creeps who've crawled out of the sewer should at the very least be castrated: and heavy fines made on any of their lot who produce more than two offspring - which burden this country can no longer accommodate, anyway.

Bliar and Co plotted the destruction of England. Well, they've virtually succeeded!
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
OD4U
If its OK for one then its OK for all.
09:39 AM on 05/13/2012
So as far as Mr Starkey is concerned our border controls failed because no explanation was given to these men that raping our young women is not good.
In response to that I would ask government just how many men from Pakistan and Afghanistan are now living in this country and, have they all been told that raping our young women is not good?
Are we now expected to feel sympathy for these contemptible creatures because they were not told rape is sick, vile and illegal? If so what else do immigrants need to be told in order that they can more easily fit in with our society? Do not kill, kidnap, steal, traffic drugs etc etc. Surely they should read a rule book before stepping onto a plane to get here?
01:47 PM on 05/12/2012
Not a racial issue says the police. That's a TOTAL LIE.
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vividrick
I came, I saw...I had a cup of tea!
01:31 PM on 05/12/2012
I don't agree with him. If this problem was 'rife' amongst the community, up & down the country, then I'd suggest he had a point. Fact is, these evil men shared a common practice with other evil perpetrators of this crime, they were predatory & sought ways to exploit & rape these girls. They used whatever means they could at their disposal, same as convicted Priests have, same as convicted footballers have, same as convicted teachers have etc etc. History of this crime has shown it can be done by evil men (& sometimes women) no matter of their background, religion, work, creed etc. they can work alone, or in groups, online etc. Yes these guys were Muslim, and off course whenever people choose to be in a group which propose & preach high moral standards, we're quick to knock them down the minute they breach or step out of line, & rightly so! I will make a point that off course, leaders have to come out and deplore this as well as act upon this, just like the Church must do, fellow teachers, fellow sports professionals, like the examples I made above. If they're embarrassed & angry, then please show it, and let the media highlight this for a change instead of focusing on the negativity virtually 24/7.

My point is, no one is innocent. This kind of predatory 'evilness', if there is such a word, has proven to show no bounds, it cuts across all barriers.
02:03 PM on 05/12/2012
You try to excuse them. This problem is very big and countrywide - Asian men doing these crimes. It is not your right to belittle or try to dismiss it.
This comment has been removed.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
beenzrgud
Can't say what I'd like to here.
01:26 PM on 05/12/2012
For anyone moving to the UK there should be a similar policy to other countries. Anyone committing any crime within the first 3 years of arriving is immediately sent back following sentencing. Additionally I would add that any immigrant should be sent back regardless of the duration they've been in the UK if they commit a serious crime, such as rape, murder.

BTW Keith Vaz is talking out of his backside.
01:21 PM on 05/12/2012
imprison and deport

my other suggestions would get my comments blocked and this thread closed.
12:42 PM on 05/12/2012
The representative of islamic Ramadan is reported as having said "the girls were asking for it". How does he know, was he one of their "clients" ( = tormentors) ?
11:59 AM on 05/12/2012
I agree with Starkey. In addition to racism I think many men of all creeds and colours are guilty of sexism. Sadly this is true of women too.

Lack of respect for women is endemic throughout society. You will find popular assent to a proposition that girls at large after dark are 'asking for it'. Few people will suppose they are neglected, unprotected, in need of genuine care. No, they must get what's coming to them if they are rash enough to be out in public and it is to be expected that men will succumb to their desires.

I believe that this view is prevalent. Please examine your attitude to women. It seems that many Asian men are guilty of this but it is not confined to any single race.
10:54 AM on 05/12/2012
I cannot believe what this guy is saying - when they arrive in this country they should abide by our rules and morals and if they dont wish to send them back !!!! Instead they work in tax dodging jobs like taxi driving and fast crap food huts and use the slums upstairs to groom innocent vulnerable WHITE females - whilst thier wives and familys stay at home unaware. Once convicted its still us the hardworking British taxpayers that pay thousands to roof, clothe and feed the animals, why should we ?? They arent worth food and fresh British air - bring back hanging and torture - they have it back home

Nothing Great about this Great Britain at present.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
GingerlyColors
No will to change it, no right to criticize it
09:14 AM on 05/12/2012
Grooming children for underage sex and having sex with such children are certainly not part of our cultural norms but unfortunately they are in some of those countries from where some of our large immigrant community has arrived from. During the trial of those nine men the British National Party were exploiting the situation for their gain and there has been the suggestion that there was a BNP 'mole' on the jury that convicted those men.
It is right that Dr. David Starkey be allowed to speak out on such a controversial issue and it is time that we took the debate about multiculturalism, immigration and race relations back from the extremists. As a man who is living in a relationship with another man, Dr. David Starkey has no time for the BNP (which disagrees with homosexuality as it does many other issues) and feels that it is his duty to sideline the far right and remove the fear of being branded 'fascist' from people who do wish to debate these sensitive issues in a democratic forum.
07:54 AM on 05/12/2012
Controversy stirs debate which may be a good thing. The facts of this case make grim reading, Its not a time for any cultural group to feel smug or above reproach. Yes these offenders are of two ethnic groups but their network comes from more than that. Their work (taxi driving /take aways) gave them opportunities to abuse, they gather from a pool of mainly Pakistani men hence the cultural group. Not all Pakistani taxi drivers are abusers, think of other networks, where abusers have linked through "work" catholic priests, social workers at children's homes, cases show how individuals were enabled by other's with similar predilections Online it becomes much less determined by environment, because we can meet anyone online we just need to share an "interest" we need to wake up I am afraid this criminal behaviour cuts through all . cultures,social classes and religions http://cupofteaandachat.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/raising-awarenessmeans-being-aware.html
07:46 AM on 05/12/2012
They came to england to live and probably lived amongst others who have lived here for some time, so they would know what they did was wrong as well as they could easily have found out, so no excuse. What planet does this egg head come from..Not racist?????these guys are asian and the victims white. Why did they not pick on asian girls. they new what they were doing. Academics should be seen and not heard.
07:45 AM on 05/12/2012
As much as I have found this Starkey chap a little biased towards the right wing aims of capitalism in the past, on this subject of grooming he has stated what the entire establishment know to be true but are too frightened to talk to the media about.

It is simply that this ridiculous multicultural experiment has failed and does not work, has not worked and will never work. The cultural differences really do make such grooming normal for Pakistani males who look on non Muslim women to be far, far below what they would want to be married too or even living with. They would not even want their sisters to speak to them.

At last we have a semi establishment figure who has spoken out on this issue and one hopes that more will follow and send the lefty old Blairites such as Vaz back to their nursery schools and Universities where they can obtain some real education with the University of Life.

There is a long way still to go however. I heard that awful Tory Louise Mensch talking on BBC's Newsnight quite recently and she still wants to reside withn that Guardian Reader's utopian viewpoint that this is just a tiny, tiny minority. Like Harriet Harmon the University of Life would take them both back to reality and away from their privileged backgrounds and their most inadequate past education, and most limited experience of life.

Sadly, this is what we are expected to vote for!
05:28 AM on 05/12/2012
Starkey makes a valid point and, as a consequence, why can't we deport them back to the cesspit they came from - the acceptance of our morals and attitudes should remain a pre-requisite for retaining British citizenship.

Hence; why is this sub-life not being deported after completing their sentence and why should we, the British taxpayer, always foot the bill for their time in prison?
northern git
fed up with all the political crap in life
07:05 PM on 05/11/2012
However Keith Vaz, chair of the home affairs select committee said that their crimes could be attributed to "no particular race or religion."

what planet is he on?


there are none so blind as those that do not want to see

all offenders came from Islamic countries- FACT