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Bansi Kara

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Smacking: Why David Lammy is Wrong

Posted: 30/01/2012 00:00

There is always that child you know you should never ring home for, who may be disrupting a class, but whose parents are suspected to be a little too free with their fists. That child who is known to Social Services, who may not have broken bones, but cries hysterically when you say you might ring home to their mum or dad to let them know their child has a detention. That child whose life swings between rebellion and fear. The rebellion in school against the harsh discipline of home, the fear that their school may cause physical harm in trying to resolve the issues.

Teachers spend their days counselling children to do the right thing. If there is an argument, talk it through with a member of staff, with another student you trust, with the other party involved. When you have hurt someone, you must apologise because it is wrong to hurt another person, even if you are upset. Teachers teach that the only way forward is dialogue and that violence is never the solution. Imagine my surprise and disgust when I read the Guardian article reporting that David Lammy advocates relaxing the smacking ban so that "working-class parents should be able to physically discipline their children to prevent them from joining gangs and getting involved in knife crime."

I've taught a lot of students over the years, from all walks of life. I have seen the direct consequences of parents whose only strategy to deal with their child is a smack, who started doing it when their child was three and headstrong, learning the limits.

Maybe it was done out of frustration or maybe out of a passed-down belief that a smack teaches discipline and doesn't harm anyone. Maybe it was done because the parent was tired, alone, helpless. I would argue that when that child was three or four, the strategy worked - the child cried and stopped misbehaving. Who knows why it worked? Humiliation, surprise, fear?

The problem occurs later, when the child reaches 15 and does something wrong or is involved in a difficult situation. What is the default position for a child that has been conditioned to believe that physical force solves life's problems? That child's actions are the direct effect of using smacking as a tool to raise your children. There is no thought, no dialogue and no empathy involved. Rarely is physical force used in a measured, intellectual manner. It is used in the moment and requires no thought. The last thing that a community leader should be advocating is the use of physical force to teach the difference between right and wrong because it is a mere sticking-plaster for much wider issues in modern parenting.

I find it particularly problematic that David Lammy would present this idea as a tool for the working class. Why does a single, working mother require permission to chastise her children using her fists? Is there something about her single, working status that means we should not explore other avenues of instilling discipline in her children? That we should not offer her any other kind of support to raise her children?

Perhaps if David Lammy was suggesting strategies involving early years education, parenting classes for young teenage mothers, creating links between social services, schools and the health service, I would be more convinced. By reducing knife crime and gang violence to parents being confused about whether to hit their child or not is, quite frankly, insulting. It ignores the enormous impact of poverty, of lack of positive role models for young men, of poor aspirations. It bypasses the important to focus on the ridiculous. By not challenging the idea that rigid rules about smacking caused the riots, he has simplified the most complex societal issue in our recent history to 'hit or not to hit'. Sometimes, representation as an MP is not just about being the voice of the few, but also about challenging dangerous ideas.

Most of all, David Lammy needs to challenge these ideas because there is the obvious extrapolation that comes from his argument. Society, people cry out, is in need of reform. Allow parents to smack their children, allow teachers to use the cane, bring back hanging. Because obviously, doing these things would mean that immediately children would stop misbehaving at home, all classes in school would be perfectly behaved and no one would commit serious crimes, ever again.

Forgive me, but seems that his argument is reminiscent of shutting the barn door after the horse has bolted - much like Nadine Dorries' argument that teaching abstinence would somehow turn the tide against the sexualisation of society, teenage pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases.

Relaxing legislation on smacking won't alter the number of rioters on the streets of Tottenham. I would argue that creating a generation of young people who are humiliated and angry may actually increase levels of discontent - combine that with unemployment, lack of aspirations and lack of role models within the community and we have a serious problem on our hands.

I suppose it all comes down to what you think 'discipline' actually means. In the early 13th century, it derived from the Latin 'disciplina' which meant "instruction given, teaching, learning, knowledge".

Later, it came to mean 'military training' in the 14th and 15th centuries, evoking the idea of routine, measurement, standards and uniformity. The idea of 'discipline' as punishment is only a small part of its etymology and definition. Its greater part lies in the idea of developing learning, through instruction and through routine.

Discipline comes with cognition, self awareness and an ability to question - not through the arbitrary and humiliating use of physical force. I hope there are other community leaders out there who believe the same thing.

 

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09:54 AM on 02/01/2012
I take it back, I'm allowed to post again. Woooo-hoooo! Moderation policies on this forum are an enigma.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Brecia Veonne Bloom
I care. What's YOUR excuse?
07:15 PM on 01/31/2012
Spanking is a useful disciplinary technique. Smacking is reactionary abuse and laziness.
03:41 PM on 01/31/2012
It seems I am, without explanation, no longer allowed to post on this thread. Challenging too many "liberal" prejudices perhaps? Bye.
08:18 PM on 01/30/2012
Smacking the kids might make a difference, but the problem lies in the enviroment these kids are raised in. Is the parent doing the smacking a single parent, are they in an area with frequent drug abuse, crime, police activity, gang culture?? All of these elements need to be addressed before the ''perfect parents'' suddenly have the law on their side to be a little more persuasive when it comes to discipline. Many of these areas that were described as 'sick' post riots would have ''worst case'' children barely out of nappies who would probably turn to friends and the WRONG people for support if they were smacked in their own home! Only because their whole view and upbringing has made their whole reasoning and morality a convoluted mess! Turf out the source of these problems in the said areas then look at smacking. It would work in any other area except where these other elements come into play.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
WoolyBumblebee
Creator of TruthAndOblivion.com
05:35 PM on 01/30/2012
Smacking a child. Simply the lazy and ignorant parenting option.
05:25 PM on 01/30/2012
Our father smacked us when we were young, and as a grew older I lived in fear of him for even the smallest thing I did wrong. This is no way for a child to feel in their own home. Mistakes happen in life, but they don't have to be rewarded with a humiliation and physical pain.

In my relationships as an adult the only way I knew to deal with conflict was to lash out by screaming or hitting. Smacking children does not teach them non-agressive ways to deal with issues as an adult. This is the point I think this article is trying to get across.
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NSPCC
Ending cruelty to children
05:11 PM on 01/30/2012
Some great points Bansi. Parents have to be able to set clear and consistent boundaries and maintain discipline with their children but this does not require smacking them and David Lammy's comments were misleading and unhelpful.

The reasons for the riots run far deeper than minor changes to smacking legislation. These changes would not, in any event, have significantly impacted on many of those involved in the rioting as they would have been teenagers already when the law was altered. Evidence shows that smacking is not an effective punishment and sets a bad example by suggesting that problems can be solved through hitting, often in the heat of the moment.

However, we do agree with Mr Lammy’s comments that the current laws are confusing. This leads to a minority of parents overstepping the mark and really hurting their children and then using smacking as an excuse. It also prevents social workers taking action as there is no clear line. The only way to stop this ambiguity is to ban smacking altogether and help parents to use more positive and constructive forms of discipline.
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Kevin Mcilroy
05:01 PM on 01/30/2012
So while you are trying to have a logical discussion with a three year old about how dangerous it is run away they wriggle free and escape into the path of a bus ... when a light smack might make them think twice before doing something again?

Of course abuse is wrong but as with all forms of punishment there are degrees of physical punishment from acceptable to coldly abusive; just as other forms of punishment range from witholding treats to psychological damage.... the key with everything is appropriate punishment
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
WoolyBumblebee
Creator of TruthAndOblivion.com
05:39 PM on 01/30/2012
Appropriate punishment does not include a smack. If you can't figure out an alternative to smacking your 3 year old then you obviously have not done any actual parenting. Parenting involves research, reading, communication, and the ability to come to rational conclusions on how to handle different situations with your children. No one said parenting was easy, so taking the easy, and lazy, way out and smacking your child is just stupid. As a mom of 4 little ones I am proud to say that my kids know not to run out in front of traffic, and I never had to smack one of them to make them realize that doing so would have nasty consequences.
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Kevin Mcilroy
07:06 PM on 01/30/2012
Well you are very lucky to be so clever and erudite that in a split second you can summon the logical explanation that a 3 year old will react to immediately in any danger situation;and to have children that listen and understand you in that moment of danger.

I didn't say that physical punishment was the only solution or necessarily the first that should be employed in every situation but there are cases where it might the only one
04:48 PM on 01/30/2012
Thank you Bansi Kara for saying what needed to be said. It is a child's right not to be subjected to abuse in any shape or form. Adults and animals are protected from assault whether GBH, ABH or Common assault. In the case of children there is a defence of reasonable chastisement in cases of common assault. Children therefore are being treated unequally. This is discrimination otherwise known as childism.
05:41 PM on 01/30/2012
"Adults ... are protected from assault ..." No, not if they are attacking other people, or deliberately damaging property, which is the kind of activity that gets a smack in my house.

The behaviour of a normal three year old having a tantrum would be criminal or insane in an adult, and would justify forcible restraint, arrest, charges of assault and criminal damage. Of course we do not treat children like that, because they are children. If you are going to say that children must not be smacked, because that would not be done to an adult, then presumably they should be arrested and charged instead?

Do you forcibly dress a child in order to leave the house? Do you restrain him from running off in traffic? Do you make him sit on the naughty step, or go to his room? Take him to nursery when he does not want to go? Then by your logic you are guilty of assault and false imprisonment. You couldn't do it an adult could you?

If an adult was behaving unacceptably in your house you would ask them to leave, or call the police. But you can't do that with a child. Children are not adults, they are not held fully responsible for their actions, and do not have the rights or responsibility of adults. For that reason they are subject to discipline by their parents. This argument about "equality with adults" really is complete nonsense.
04:30 PM on 01/30/2012
There's always an alternative to being aggressive. All your children are going to learn from smacking is that physical retaliation and violence is okay. It's a lazy form of discipline which never pays off in the long run.
06:19 PM on 01/30/2012
Smacking would be a lazy and counter-productive form of discipline if it were a first resort, not a last resort. An example: What do you do with a 12 year old boy whose hormones have temporarily given him the sensitivity to slight of a Mafia don, and who has taken to hitting his younger sister at any (usually imagined) insult?

Of course you explain to him that this is wrong, that he can not hit people, sticks and stones etc. But after an hour of arguing his final position is this: "That's rubbish. If she or anyone else insults me, I have a right to hit them, and I will do so, whatever you say". What do you do?

What you do, is you put your face very close to his and say "if you ever hit your sister again I will take you over my knee and hit you much harder and for much longer. You don't have to agree with me, you do have to do what I say in my house".

Now, liberal do-gooders, what I should have done? Naughty step? Loss of pocket money? Grounded for a week? Rubbish!

I did not have to carry out that threat, and that 12 year old is now a well adjusted young man. But I can quite imagine that if there had been no one prepared to stand up to him - physically - at that point he could have turned out differently.
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07:12 PM on 01/30/2012
So far you have wheeled out anecdotes involved badly behaved three and twelve year olds to justify your view that smacking is acceptable. Consequently, It's hard not to conclude that you come from an extremely dysfunctional family or one capable of birthing straw boys and straw girls. On the bright side, at least only the former will turn into straw men.
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SecularAdvocate
Media Watcher
09:12 PM on 01/30/2012
"That's rubbish. If she or anyone else insults me, I have a right to hit them, and I will do so, whatever you say"

I wonder where he got that idea then?
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SecularAdvocate
Media Watcher
04:29 PM on 01/30/2012
If you were beaten as a child, and as a result imagine yourself to be well adjusted, and yet you tthink it's ok to beat a child, you are not well adjusted.

Probably because you were beaten.

Here's a nice video all you advocates of beating your kids can enjoy:

http://youtu.be/Wl9y3SIPt7o

I challenge any of you sickos to show me a video where smacking is done "properly".
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
WoolyBumblebee
Creator of TruthAndOblivion.com
05:41 PM on 01/30/2012
Well said! Thank you.
03:24 PM on 01/30/2012
OK I will try again:

Using "fists" is abuse. That is not what David Lammy is talking about, and I think you know that. A smack on the bottom is not abuse. The parents of this country are fed up of being dictated to by liberal do-gooding "experts". I have eight children, I think that makes me an expert. They are all different. Some children don't need to be smacked, because they will listen to reason, others just won't. Doubtless you would say that is because I am a "bad parent", but they have all been raised the same (by both parents, in the same house, and no, not on benefits, before anyone asks). The difference is down to the children, not the parenting. For some, physical punishment is the only thing that will teach them not to direct violence against others. And no, that is not a contradiction, it is a valuable and necessary lesson to learn that rules are ultimately backed by force. It applies in the adult world too, but with much more severe consequences. Some children do not learn it until the police *force* collars them, by which time it may be too late. That is the evidence of bad parenting. David Lammy is right, and you do your case no good by misrepresenting him.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
WoolyBumblebee
Creator of TruthAndOblivion.com
05:44 PM on 01/30/2012
You are advocating lazy and abusive parenting. Any smack is abuse. There is no way you can justify it to be otherwise. Just because you have 8 kids does not make you a good parent. It just means you had 8 kids and couldn't be bothered to learn how to use different techniques for your children's different needs. Anyone can pop out kids. Parenting them correctly takes skill.
07:05 PM on 01/30/2012
Hi Wooly,

Well, any smack is not abuse, in law, and just because you and the NSPCC would like it to be does not make it so.

I agree that different children need different parenting techniques. I could name four of mine who have hardly ever needed a smack. Some children will go meekly to their room as a punishment, and this is effective. Others will stand and scream and have to be manhandled up the stairs. (Is that "abuse" by the way? If not why not? It would be assault and false imprisonment if you did it to an adult).

The fact is, some children, some of the time, need to be smacked (and much more often, threatened with a smack). The majority of parents know that to be true, but you see fit to tar us with the word "abuse".

I would like you to tell me what I should have done with my 12 year old who insisted he had the right to hit his sister (see my other post on here somewhere).
03:19 PM on 01/30/2012
I just composed a comment, signed up a new account, never posted on HuffPost before, and I get "Sorry you have been banned from commenting". What on earth?
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SecularAdvocate
Media Watcher
04:34 PM on 01/30/2012
Their policies are similar to Stalinist Russia. And as obscure as Kafka's jailers.
02:43 PM on 01/30/2012
Please see www.acestudy.org regarding Adverse Childhood Experiences and the relation to adult health.

Thank you for this article!
02:42 PM on 01/30/2012
Smacking and caning used to be a good deterrent in schools. Sadly liberal do-gooders soon put a stop to that and since the 80's school behaviour has slowly but surely declined. Its human nature to be afraid of retribution and pain, remove it and you get anarchy in the classroom. Any child who is truly afraid of a beating from their parents if their teacher reports him/her for misbehaviour, surely has an incentive to behave?
03:13 PM on 01/30/2012
very true - teaching religion and morals helped aswell but liberals stuffed that
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SecularAdvocate
Media Watcher
04:35 PM on 01/30/2012
Rubbish. All it teaches kids is how to be more effective and cunning liars, and how big people can get smaller people to do as they are commanded, or else they'll hurt them.

Some lesson. Some education.
05:43 PM on 01/30/2012
Precisely. Children are not slaves, surprise surprise; parents somehow regard children as their emotional property where they can coerce their kids to conform to their own world view.