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Scott De Buitléir

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Lest We Forget? The Irish Did

Posted: 12/11/2012 23:21

Last week as I made my way through Dublin's crowds to get a bus home, I passed by a well-dressed man walking from Abbey Street onto O'Connell Street. I would never have bothered to take notice of him if it weren't for what he clearly went out of his way to buy and wear on his lapel; a red poppy. I was surprised to see such a rarity in the Irish capital, but while some may see it as disgraceful, I had nothing but respect for him.

Whether right or wrong, it's extremely uncommon in Ireland to see anyone wearing a poppy, commemorating those who died while serving in the British Army. If one were to ask why, an initial response could be that it is a British custom and not an Irish one. South of the UK's only land border (i.e. the one between Northern Ireland and the Republic), wearing a poppy can be regarded at best as being "West-British," and at worst as an affront to Irish people who died at the hands of British forces over the years. What makes the situation so complicated, however, is that there are so many Irishmen and women who join the British Army's Royal Irish Regiment each year. So, while the British honour those who died while serving their country from WWI onwards, the Irish turn a blind eye. Why? Because they're too torn to know how they should feel about it.

Recently, Sunderland footballer and Derry native James McClean decided not to wear a poppy. Not being a soccer fan, I had never heard of McClean until his name was spread across Twitter, with people having strong feelings on his decision. While some respect and support it, others noted that it was ironic for a man who played for a British football club to refuse to partake in a British custom. It's probably worth noting that three Argentinian players wore poppies on their shirts, despite being from a country that isn't the UK's best friend, thanks to the Falklands.

The Irish problem with wearing the poppy is in no way straightforward, and McClean is in some ways a victim of this. British soldiers killed many Irish civilians over the years, from those on the streets of Dublin in 1916 to Bloody Sunday in Derry in 1972. On the other hand, there were over 49,000 Irish soldiers who died for King and Country in the First World War. Although key figures such as the President will lay wreaths on commemorative days, those soldiers aren't remembered or honoured by the general public in Ireland. They've been forgotten, as if Ireland was never involved in the war.

It's perfectly respectable in my opinion, if not admirable, that the Republic is a neutral state and does not partake in war. Instead, the Irish Army plays its part in UN peacekeeping missions. Peacekeepers are not immune to attack, though, and 86 Irish soldiers have died during peacekeeping missions since 1986. The number of British soldiers who have died during the same time is probably much higher, but one must keep in mind that Ireland is a much smaller country than the UK; the Republic's population is 4.6 million, while the UK's is roughly 62.2 million. Such a death toll is substantial to a relatively small country.

What is disappointing, however, is that unlike the UK, the Irish do not have a culture of honouring those who fought for their nation. The Irish who fought alongside the British in WWI did so for a number of reasons. Some thought that if they fought alongside their oppressor, they would gain enough respect to be awarded Home Rule. Some signed up because they had no other way of earning a few shillings. Some at the time felt no need for an independent country, and had no problem fighting for King and Country. All of them, though, were Irishmen, and should be remembered. Maybe the red poppy is too politicised for the Irish to wear, but there's nothing to say that they couldn't come up with an equivalent symbol.

"Lest we forget" are the famous words, originally penned by Kipling. It seems that in Ireland, though, we're either too ashamed or too nervous to remember.

 

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Last week as I made my way through Dublin's crowds to get a bus home, I passed by a well-dressed man walking from Abbey Street onto O'Connell Street. I would never have bothered to take notice of him ...
Last week as I made my way through Dublin's crowds to get a bus home, I passed by a well-dressed man walking from Abbey Street onto O'Connell Street. I would never have bothered to take notice of him ...
 
 
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Seaniebhoy
19:57 on 27/11/2012
Scott, if you're from Dublin you may have come accross a nifty War Memorial in Islandbridge dedicated to the exact thing we are all allegedly ashamed of.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Tuigim
The perils of benefactors...
02:48 on 22/11/2012
"South of the UK's only land border"?
The UK has internal land borders between Wales and Scotland.
Whether or not Northern Ireland is classified as UK depends on who you talk to.
You are apparently more than happy to give it away.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Tuigim
The perils of benefactors...
03:53 on 18/11/2012
"We're either too ashamed or too nervous to remember"...?!
I find this whole article desperately ill-informed, condescending, and insulting.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Tuigim
The perils of benefactors...
03:47 on 18/11/2012
The Irish did not forget: YOU misread history.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Tuigim
The perils of benefactors...
23:07 on 17/11/2012
Part 2
Imagine if someone was made to wear a cross before going on Irish TV even if they were of a different religion: there would be outrage and justifiably so. No Irish person who disagrees with the war or wars or war in general should be put under pressure to become a tool of the war machine in painting crimes of the past as 'service' or 'sacrifice.' All were victims and many were murderers.

The backlash against James McClean reminds me of McCarthyism in the states. If the war was about freedom, as they would have us believe, why are they against his freedom to not wear a symbol associated with bloodshed?

Your beliefs confuse me, Scott, and they certainly do not reflect views of the majority of Irish people I know. Maybe it is not the majority that is confused on this issue but you yourself with you acceptance of a history written by the 'conquerors'?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Tuigim
The perils of benefactors...
23:07 on 17/11/2012
Part 1
Scott,
You wrote:
"Because they're too torn to know how they should feel about it."
Do NOT speak for me on that one.
I am not torn at all. I know exactly how I feel.
I am a pacifist and deplore war, all wars, as mass murder.
I deplore those who try to sanitize it, justify it, or glorify it.
The red poppy is similar to the American flag on lapels on the news at the height of the war on Iraq. It was propaganda and those who didn't wear one were accused of being unpatriotic (a euphemism in a twisted world for anti-war), as if that were a bad thing.
I find your acceptance of the official version of history very naive. Most people I speak to in Ireland know better. Heck, even the old ladies in the nursing home where my Mom languished with Alzheimer's for years had a far better handle on history. Soldiers are trained killers. War is mass murder.
Britain and America got locked into patriotic fervor to justify their wars of aggression. If you refused a poppy before going on British TV that was considered a major insult. people looked on you as the enemy.
15:13 on 14/11/2012
There is an equivalent symbol Scott, it's called the Easter Lily and it remembers the brave volunteers of the Irish Volunteers, Irish Citizen Army and IRA who fought against the British occupation and for Irish Freedom.

Your claim that there is no tradition of honoring those who fought for Ireland is untrue. The Irish State does not have a tradition because the State forces have by and large been puppets of the British. It has fallen to those organisations outside of the State to fight for the Irish people and remember their dead.

I was recently at a commemoration for 18 year-old IRA Volunteer Kevin Barry, tortured and eventually hanged in Dublin in 1920 by those 'brave' British soldiers returning from WWI. Nobody from any of the government parties bothered to show up.

Are you claiming thse people "fought for Ireland"? They didn't, they fought for Britain, a foreign nation. And Bloody Sunday 1972 was certainly not the last British atrocity commited in Ireland.

Those who fought for the British are traitors of the highest order and the equivalent of mercenaries. I for one will not be commemorating individuals who signed up to a foreign army to fight another foreign army (and in some cases their fellow Irishmen) in an imperialist war for nothing more than personal greed and 'adventure'. A more fitting thing would be to remember how an imperialsit war between two empires left millions of ordinary people dead at the hands of British, Germans and others.
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Scott De Buitléir
Writer & Radio Host
22:41 on 17/11/2012
Hi Mark,

First off, the general point of my article is that the Irish don't have a symbol similar to the poppy to commemorate soldiers who have died while serving in the armed forces - whether those forces are British or Irish. In regards to your comment, the Easter Lily does not - for example - have anything to do with Irish soldiers who have died during UN peacekeeping mission. So, your suggestion of the Lily is not a suitable one in opinion as it only refers to those "who fought against the British occupation."

"Those who fought for the British are traitors of the highest order" - well, that would include my great-grandfather in that case; a proud Dubliner who served in the Royal Irish Regiment. Funnily enough, his own wife was a member of Cumann na mBan, and I can only imagine how fun their dinner conversations were(!). Still, I would disagree with you on that point because of my his involvement.

Finally: "A more fitting thing would be to remember [...] left millions of ordinary people dead..." This actually supports my original point; to remember those who died, but there is no universal, neutral symbol available to the Irish to do so.

I think, Mark, that we can both appreciate that we will eternally come from different viewpoints, if previous conversations are anything to go by. Still, thanks for taking the time to read this piece and for commenting.

Best,

- SDB
23:06 on 17/11/2012
Yes the issue of the Defence Forces is quite a strange one. I think the laurel wreaths with the tricolour which are regularly used at commemorations are quite nice.

I would accept that many of those, while not intending to be tratiorous, were misled by Redmond and his ilk who disgracefully urged Irish working class men and boys to sacrifice their lives on Flanders fields in the hope of getting home rule. A despicable action by a man not willing to go and fight himself. (My great grandmother was also a member of Cumann na mBan in Dublin) Today however, there is no excuse for those Irish people who join the British military to work as what are essentially mercenaries.

The universal symbol which I beleive is acceptable to all is the White Poppy. It represents Peace and remembers all those combatants (from all sides) and civilians killed. In Britian those who wear it are regularly subjected to attacks and rants by people who find it "disrespectufl", such as Frankie Boyle who wore one on Jonathan Ross Show two weeks ago and was inundated with vile comments.

Take care,
MM
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Tuigim
The perils of benefactors...
03:50 on 18/11/2012
"Still, I would disagree with you on that point because of my his involvement."
What???????????????
Your only reason for disagreeing is that someone in your family history was on that side? Really?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Tuigim
The perils of benefactors...
23:10 on 17/11/2012
Thank you for the voice of reason, Mark.
Scott, I have no idea where you get these ideas from!
Do you choose to take a position that is against the prevailing wisdom in Ireland just to be different or to be controversial or do actually believe what you write?