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Smoking Ban in Cars: How Dare the BMA Dictate How We Live Our Lives?

Posted: 17/11/2011 22:00

The doctors' trade union, the British Medical Association, has called for smoking to be banned in cars. Not just cars with children present, but all private vehicles.

Think about that for a minute. It would mean that an adult sitting at the wheel of his own car, alone, could light a cigarette and be stopped by the police.

He might get an on-the-spot fine or find himself in court, given penalty points plus a substantial fine. If he refused to pay the fine, he could go to jail.

The BMA justifies this Orwellian scenario on the grounds that smoking is 'bad' for us.

Potentially, that's true. Few people dispute that there are health risks associated with smoking, some serious. But we know that and as adults it's our choice to smoke, drink, eat fatty foods or go skydiving. How dare the BMA dictate how we live our lives in our own private space?

Nudging, they argue, doesn't work. So the so-called 'caring profession' has decided that the heavy hand of the law must force us to change our behaviour. There's nothing caring about coercive legislation that is simultaneously designed to inconvenience and stigmatise a significant minority of the adult population.

In less than a decade Britain has been transformed from a well-meaning, if intrusive, nanny state to a nasty, coercive bully state, that favours legislation above education and common sense.

Predictably, much of the debate has focused on 'the children'. Legislation, we are told, is needed to protect children from environmental tobacco smoke (ETS).

I don't defend people smoking in a small enclosed space if children are present. It's inconsiderate at least, and where children are concerned it's probably best to err on the side of caution or, as some would say, courtesy.

In reality, however, only a very small minority of smokers still light up if a child is in the car and, contrary to popular belief, peer-reviewed science, taken as a whole, does not support the argument that smoking in cars is a health risk to other passengers, including children.

As for the claim that ETS in a car is "23 times more toxic in a vehicle than in a home" (or a non-defined 'smokey' pub), I want to see evidence of harm, not just a catchy soundbite.

Writing in the Canadian Medical Association Journal last year, Ross MacKenzie of the School of Public Health at Sydney University said: "In [an] exhaustive search of the relevant literature, we failed to locate any scientific source for this comparison."

No surprise there. Tobacco control campaigners routinely play fast and loose with the truth.

Remember those unsubstantiated claims that 11,000 non-smokers died every year in Britain as a result of exposure to so-called secondhand smoke? It was based on estimates and calculations, not hard evidence.

Now they're excelling themselves. A ban on smoking in all cars and, by extension, the home is necessary, they say, because of the cancer-causing particles that smokers allegedly leave on clothes and furnishings, including car seats. Having invented the concept of secondhand smoke to scare us to death, they now want us to believe that 'thirdhand smoke' is a killer too.

Grasping at straws, the BMA would also have us believe that smoking while driving is a serious threat to other road users. The use of mobile phones, they say, is banned while driving, so why not smoking?

One, the use of mobile phones while driving was clearly associated with several fatal accidents where it was proved that drivers had been on the phone at the exact moment of impact. No road accident, to my knowledge, has ever been blamed on a driver smoking or dropping his cigarette while driving.

Two, although the Highway Code lists smoking as a potential distraction while driving, it has not been banned for one very good reason. International studies show that, in the overall scheme of things, smoking is a very minor distraction compared to fellow passengers, unruly children, changing a CD or retuning the radio. Perhaps we should ban them too, just in case.

So why is the BMA calling for a comprehensive ban on smoking while driving? My view, for what it's worth, is that it's tactical. The BMA's declaration coincides with the second reading of Labour MP Alex Cunningham's Private Members' Bill, which calls for a ban on smoking in private vehicles when children are present. It's listed to be debated on Friday 25 November.

The BMA has possibly worked out that by calling for more extreme action, the coalition government may see a ban on smoking in cars with children as a reasonable compromise.

It's not. It's no less illiberal than a complete ban because, for the first time, it would take our laws on smoking into what is clearly private territory. Ban smoking in cars with children on the contentious grounds that their health is at risk and the next logical step is to ban smoking in the home or, at the very least, the kitchen or the sitting room - anywhere, in fact, where a child might stumble today, tomorrow or even next week.

Anti-smoking activists say that's not their objective. But they would say that, wouldn't they?

A decade ago the height of their ambition was more no-smoking areas in pubs and clubs. Within a few years that became a comprehensive ban on smoking in every pub, club and café in the country.

Five years ago campaigners would have denied that a ban on smoking in private vehicles was on the agenda, yet here we are. If government gives in to the fanatical and puritanical anti-smoking industry, do you really think they won't be demanding a ban on smoking in our own homes?

Hopefully common sense will prevail and the government will have the sense to butt out. It's not much to ask.

 
The doctors' trade union, the British Medical Association, has called for smoking to be banned in cars. Not just cars with children present, but all private vehicles. Think about that for a minute. I...
The doctors' trade union, the British Medical Association, has called for smoking to be banned in cars. Not just cars with children present, but all private vehicles. Think about that for a minute. I...
 
 
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04:55 AM on 11/20/2011
When will the heath police turn their attention to Sat Navs, surely it is very dangerous for someone to be continually looking at a sat nav screen instead of the road ahead, this must be more dangerours than smoking. Or are they waiting until everone has bought one before trying to ban them.
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floodberg
Attorney (ret.)
08:58 PM on 11/19/2011
Why doesn't the government just give out a checklist on how people must live?

I'm older and I smoke.  As long as smoking is still legal, I should be able to do it in my home and auto.  If the government wants to put controls on smoking around small children in enclosed spaces, that's another matter; but the causal connection is still dodgy (there are other environmental factors that impact children's health and are not separable from smoking, such as smog, pollution, exposure to asbestos/insulation, etc.)  Look at the statistical 'methods' behind those 'estimated deaths and illnesses...there are "lies, damned lies and statistics," (Twain, attributed to Disraeli if anyone's interested) and all three are involved in this debate. 

A lot of habits (smoking, alcohol, drugs) are legal and harmful to health, as are hobbies (dangerous ones such as racing, sports).  If you're going to do this on the basis of increased health care costs, be consistent and have a strong causal connection and high statistical correlations.  Legislate mandatory exercise, rules of social and sexual contacts, quarantine and/or tattoo folks with communicable illnesses, make certain foods illegal, mandate yearly household inspections for safety, cleanliness, etc. (that should close half the housing), educational levels (high correlation to illness) and everything else.  Better yet, let's figure out who lives the longest without illness and accident, detail their life habits and make it the only legal way to live.
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Thismortalcoil
Science is the poetry of reality
06:51 PM on 11/19/2011
This is also from the Huffington Post:

"Scientists then estimated that passive smoking causes about 379,000 deaths from heart disease, 165,000 deaths from lower respiratory disease, 36,900 deaths from asthma and 21,400 deaths from lung cancer a year.

Altogether, those account for about 1 percent of the world's deaths. The study was paid for by the Swedish National Board of Health and Welfare and Bloomberg Philanthropies. It was published Friday in the British medical journal Lancet.

"This helps us understand the real toll of tobacco," said Armando Peruga, a program manager at the World Health Organization's Tobacco-Free Initiative, who led the study. He said the approximately 603,000 deaths from secondhand smoking should be added to the 5.1 million deaths that smoking itself causes every year.

Peruga said WHO was particularly concerned about the 165,000 children who die of smoke-related respiratory infections, mostly in Southeast Asia and Africa.

"The mix of infectious diseases and secondhand smoke is a deadly combination," Peruga said. Children whose parents smoke have a higher risk of sudden infant death syndrome, ear infections, pneumonia, bronchitis and asthma. Their lungs may also grow more slowly than kids whose parents don't smoke."

If adults choose to smoke, that's their decision.

If adults choose to believe some studies over others, that's also their decision.

But is it their decision to take significant risks with their children's health?
12:44 PM on 11/19/2011
I am deeply concerned at the contact law making to make us do what others want no matter how strongly we feel that they are wrong. In this case I have opinion what so ever as I am a none smoker but I do have an opinion on the rights of individuals to have some control over their lives.

I wonder if those who are so ready to condemn smokers would be as ready to shoulder the much heavier tax burden there will be if people don't smoke? If they are, fine, but don't include me. You can pay my share.

I have no doubt that the so very self important ones who think they never do anything wrong would be mortified to find that the finger could almost certainly be pointed at them over something they do. It seems to me these days that one group or another is villainised on a regular basis and off the know it alls go like a pack of hounds.

All these doctors know what's right do they? How many of them take drugs? Drink? Smoke? It's do as we say not do as we do with so many of them.

It's all about control of the masses and don't forget that.
09:57 PM on 11/18/2011
This as with all these petty pointless laws are not for our benefit It is just a fine generator and another nonsense to give otherwise unemployable jobs worth,s a reason to live.
Cashmoron and his cronies do so love a new fine it generates millions a year for the treasury and the private companies who get contracts to enforce these petty laws including rent a cop PLC and council wardens usually no more than thugs in Hi Viz employed to issue fines for a child of two dropping its dummy whenever I hear of a new safety study I wait expectantly for the enforcement fine price to be advertised Red Squaddie
09:34 PM on 11/18/2011
The smoking ban has decimated the social lives of many thousands that no longer visit pubs. It has left smokers in some town centres with nowhere to shelter and now they want to ban smoking in cars.

The government should have absolutely no right to continue persecuting smokers which are a law abiding minority; it should amend the very unpopular smoking ban inside all public buildings that has turned milliions of adult smokers into second class citizens leaving them standing outside in the cold.

It would be totally unfair to interfere bringing about more draconian restrictions and legislation into peoples private lives such as a car smoking ban, just to appease these health fascists.
07:57 PM on 11/18/2011
If you don't want the government banning things just because they're bad for us, perhaps you should be campaigning for the legalisation of all currently banned recreational drugs (most of which are considerably less bad for you than tobacco) before worrying about this issue which is relatively minor by comparison.
12:37 PM on 11/19/2011
Tobacco doesn't numb the sense. I'm not a smoker either and never have been.
01:26 PM on 11/19/2011
I actually generally agree with you. However my research suggests that for the most toxic class A drugs crack cocaine and heroin after 20 years daily consumption 66% of people have serious health problems. Cancer, heart and organ failure. Certainly cannabis, ecstasy and mefadrome (spelling) and so called designer drugs should be legalised. My feeling is that recreational drugs given to responsible pharmaceutical and tobacco companies and could be refined into a safer chemistry.
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Thismortalcoil
Science is the poetry of reality
06:32 PM on 11/18/2011
This is from the Huffington Post yesterday, from the British Lung Foundation:

"Every year over 300,000 children in the UK go to their GP with illnesses such as bronchitis and pneumonia as a result of exposure to passive smoking, an astonishing statistic that highlights need for immediate Government action. In straitened times, the financial incentive for government to take action on the issue is also convincing. According to a 2010 report by the Royal College of Physicians, this cost the Government over £22 million per annum in UK primary care visits and hospital admissions in England."

I'm sure people can find statistics that disagree with this. The tobacco industry is very heavily funded - it wasn't that long ago they were denying that smoking caused lung cancer.

But the bottom line is, would you take the risk with your children's health?
11:17 PM on 11/18/2011
"Every year over 300,000 children in the UK go to their GP with illnesses such as bronchitis and pneumonia as a result of exposure to passive smoking..."

Would you like to post a link to hard evidence for that claim, please?

"According to a 2010 report by the Royal College of Physicians­, this cost the Government over £22 million per annum in UK primary care visits and hospital admissions in England."

And that one, too.

What you perhaps don't realise is that these organisations lie.

Regularly.

They manipulate statistics, they cherry-pick from studies, and they conjure up numbers out of thin air, numbers that have no basis whatsoever in scientific research. Because that is their lifeblood. It is at the core of their funding. It is their raison d'être. Without keeping the scare-story gravy train rolling, they will wither on the vine. So they keep churning out this guff, and the ever compliant MSM keep publishing it, never once thinking to verify the figures they're given. And the X-Factor watching masses believe it, because it was on the BBC, innit...
11:19 PM on 11/18/2011
cont.

And I think you will find that a lot more money flows into the coffers of the anti-tobacco industry from the pharmaceutical industry (who, as suppliers of nicotine replacement therapy and smoking cessation products make millions upon millions out of smoking bans) than has ever been given by the tobacco industry to smokers rights groups.

"...it wasn't that long ago they were denying that smoking caused lung cancer."

And rightly so, as there is still no hard evidence that it is the case, despite the received orthodoxy treating it as a given. It is still only conjecture, and there is plenty of evidence that points to bigger culprits, such as particulate matter from deisel exhaust fumes. As was said on a blog elsewhere today "All cancers are multifactorial". You can't pin the blame on any one influence as being the cause.
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uksnapper
03:01 PM on 11/18/2011
Children need to be protected from adults smoking so a ban on smoking in a vehicle when children under 16 are present should be introduced. but banning smoking outright in a vehicle is tantamount to dictatorship and thats NOT what we elect MPs for.
02:32 PM on 11/18/2011
I think we should either ban kids or cars, smoking ROCKS!
12:26 PM on 11/18/2011
Let me really put the cat amongst the pigeons. Asthma and atopy (general allergic reactions) are actually reduced with exposure to cigarette smoke, mainly from the nicotine inhalation.

Mishra paper from 2008 which demonstrated that cigarette smoke actually reduces asthma.

“To ascertain the effects of nicotine on allergy/asthma, Brown Norway rats were treated with nicotine and sensitized and challenged with allergens. The results unequivocally show that, even after multiple allergen sensitizations, nicotine dramatically suppresses inflammatory/allergic parameters in the lung including the following: eosinophilic/lymphocytic emigration; mRNA and/or protein expression of the Th2 cytokines/chemokines IL-4, IL-5, IL-13, IL-25, and eotaxin; leukotriene C4; and total as well as allergen-specific IgE.”

http://www.jimmunol.org/content/180/11/7655.abstract

Journal of Allergy and Clinical Immunology, Robert Hancox (University of Otago, Dunedin) paper where they found people exposed to cigarette smoke had less asthma by a factor of 45%.

"..the findings are consistent with the hypothesis that the immune-suppressant effects of cigarette smoke protect against atopy. The team found that the children of atopic parents were less likely to have positive SPTs at 13 years if either parent smoked (odds ratio [OR]= 0.55),..."We found that children who were exposed to parental smoking and those who took up cigarette smoking themselves had a lower incidence of atopy to a range of common inhaled allergen"

http://www.medwire-news.md/48/72330/Respiratory/Smoking_linked_to_reduced_allergic_sensitization_.html
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Thismortalcoil
Science is the poetry of reality
12:24 PM on 11/18/2011
The sad fact is that a huge number of parents do smoke with children in their cars and with children in their homes. And they see it as a right.

I came out of a hospital doorway last week to find three heavily pregnant women all smoking in the foyer and so I had to walk through their cloud of smelly smoke.

Not all smokers are this selfish, but while so many of them put their addiction before the needs and health of their children, the only way forward is legislation.

Smokers have chosen a self-destructive habit, their children haven't. Who's rights are more important?
01:47 PM on 11/18/2011
The truth of the matter is that most parents do not smoke in front of their children.

This survey found 85.3% did not and 6.5% would ask.

http://www.the-tma.org.uk/~thetma/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Holden-Pearmain-AIT.pdf
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Thismortalcoil
Science is the poetry of reality
02:53 PM on 11/18/2011
But is that the truth of the matter, or are smokers embarrassed to admit the truth?

Even if your figure is to be believed 14.7% is still too high when you consider how many smokers there are.
12:18 PM on 11/18/2011
We shouldn't need a ban. People should be more considerate towards others and more careful for the sake of their own health.

I'm tired of hearing about rights -- what about responsibilities? Not least the responsibility to the tax payer. NHS funds should not be wasted on the treatment of preventable diseases. You could argue that smokers pay their eay through duty on ciggies, but I'm not sure whether, or how much, of this money finds its way into the NHS budget. Tax revenues don't go into one big pot before being assigned elsewhere as far as I'm aware.

Also non-smokers can contract smoking related diseases or health issues too. As an asthmatic, I can become extremely uncomfortable in the presence of cigarette smoke.

And smokers send out the wrong message to kids. How many young people start smoking because significant adults around them are fond of lighting up?

Smoking should only be allowed outside in specially designated areas. Most people wouldn't defaecate or flatulate (is there such a word? If there isn't there should be :-)) in public, but recreational distribution of second hand carcinogens and lung poisons into the air for all to breathe in is still acceptable in many places. NB: just because cars do this too to some extent does not mean cigarette smoking is any more OK for that.
01:55 PM on 11/18/2011
"NHS funds should not be wasted on the treatment of preventabl­e diseases."

Fine with me. Considering tobacco duty is imposed to counteract externalities emanating from smoking, such as cost to the NHS, we'll have all that tax taken off the packets please. Plus, since I've paid decades of NI contributions on the basis that I will be afforded healthcare that I've paid for, it won't be long till a court case decides that those payments should be refunded. End of the NHS. Great.

"Tax revenues don't go into one big pot before being assigned elsewhere as far as I'm aware."

That's PRECISELY what happens. We don't hypothecate taxes in this country, which means that all tax revenues go into one big pot before being assigned elsewhere.

You're new to all this, aren't you?
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Thomas Platt
02:22 PM on 11/18/2011
Actually cigarette taxes generate somewhere between £9-11 billion a year for the government, whereas smokers cost the NHS somewhere between £2-5 billion a year. So smokers are more than paying for their right to healthcare - how much of cigarette tax revenue goes into the NHS, I don't know, but that's hardly down to smokers, who are effectively handing the government a shocking amount of cash per year. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but... food for thought.
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Thomas Platt
12:15 PM on 11/18/2011
I'm not necessarily pro- or anti-smoking, but if your rationale is "smoking in cars is harmful to children" then make it illegal to smoke in cars with children. I don't see the logical step from that to "ban all smoking in all cars at all times", and I think this attitude - that knocks in a nail with a sledgehammer - can only be harmful in the long run. If there is a good reason that smoking should be banned by adults alone in their cars (and I can think of a few just off the top of my head) then make *that* your argument.
09:33 AM on 11/18/2011
I will be the discerning voice here as no one has yet pulled Simon up on the simple facts of the matter.... smoking kills. It should be completely outlawed when driving. Show me the empirical evidence you note when mentioning "contrary to popular belief, peer-reviewed science, taken as a whole, does not support the argument that smoking in cars is a health risk to other passengers, including children." Could you post a link of it Simon please, I'd be interested to read through it and make my own determination on your evidence. It's a habit which to me you can exercise in your own home or in public, but the confinement of cars is not reasonable, apart from killing yourself and those in the vehicle with the smoke, second hand or otherwise, the simple matter is that 1 hand is occupied by the cigarette instead of on the wheel. In fact your mind is partly occupied b the cigarette too. I'm sorry but I can't subscribe to this, I'm all for free speech and don't like my rights being impinged upon either but common sense must prevail here and my opinion on that differs from yours Simon.
11:58 AM on 11/18/2011
I think we need to ban CDs, radios and kids in cars before smoking. This is a study funded by the American AA and the research was done by the University of North Carolina.

"The study found that drivers were most often distracted by something outside their vehicle (29.4 percent) followed by adjusting a radio or CD player (11.4 percent). Other specific distractions included talking with other occupants (10.9 percent), adjusting vehicle or climate controls (2.8 percent), eating or drinking (1.7 percent), cell-phone use (1.5 percent) and smoking (0.9 percent)."

http://www.drivers.com/article/423/
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floodberg
Attorney (ret.)
08:18 PM on 11/19/2011
Faved or this one!  I represented insurers for a while in the late 80s/early 90s; and cell-phone/texting was so critical that they tried to eliminate coverage if it was found to be a deciding factor.  They had to settle for hands-free laws, and clearly that hasn't worked to reduce accidents; everyone just ignores it.
12:04 PM on 11/18/2011
There are 22 studies done into second hand smoke (SHS) and lung cancer and children. 3 show a statistically insignificant risk, 11 show statistically insignificant protection and the remaining 8 no risk either way. The most famous is the World Health Organization's 1998 Boffetta report which actual suggests it is protective. That is children exposed to SHS have a reduced incidence of lung cancer in adulthood by a factor of 22%.

"Results: ETS exposure during childhood was not associated with an increased risk of lung cancer (odds ratio [OR] for ever exposure = 0.78; 95% confidence interval [CI] = 0.64-0.96). "

http://jnci.oxfordjournals.org/content/90/19/1440.short