David Lammy: Smacking Laws Partly To Blame For Riots

Lammy Smacking Riots

PA/The Huffington Post   First Posted: 29/01/2012 06:55 Updated: 29/01/2012 06:55

Legislation surrounding the smacking of children needs to be relaxed so working-class parents can instil discipline in their homes without fearing prosecution, according to a senior Labour politician.

MP for Tottenham David Lammy claimed Labour's 2004 decision to tighten up the smacking law was partly to blame for last summer's riots, which erupted in his north London constituency.

In an interview with LBC Radio, the former education minister said: "Many of my constituents came up to me after the riots and blamed the Labour Government, saying: 'You guys stopped us being able to smack our children'.

"I have to say when this was first raised with me I was pretty disparaging. But I started to listen. These parents are scared to smack their children and paranoid that social workers will get involved and take their children away."

Mr Lammy, who admitted to smacking his three and five-year-old sons, said working-class parents should be able to physically discipline their children to prevent them from joining gangs and getting involved in knife crime.

Current legislation, enforced under The Children Act of 2004, says parents are allowed to smack their offspring without causing the "reddening of the skin".

Previously they could use "reasonable chastisement" with a judge deciding if they had over-stepped the mark. However, since the 2004 amendments the decision has been left to social workers.

Mr Lammy said a lot of parents in his constituency have been left confused by the changes and were reluctant to physically discipline their children in case they were contacted by social workers.

He added: "The law used to allow 'reasonable chastisement', but current legislation stops actions that lead to a reddening of the skin - which for a lot of my non-white residents isn't really an issue."

The politician argued parents in Tottenham had to raise their children "with knives, gangs and the dangers of violent crime just outside the window", but "no longer feel sovereign in their own homes", because of the laws.

"The ability to exercise their own judgment in relation to discipline and reasonable chastisement has been taken away," he added.
Mr Lammy has set out his support changing the smacking laws in his book Out Of The Ashes: After The Riots.

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Legislation surrounding the smacking of children needs to be relaxed so working-class parents can instil discipline in their homes without fearing prosecution, according to a senior Labour politician.
Legislation surrounding the smacking of children needs to be relaxed so working-class parents can instil discipline in their homes without fearing prosecution, according to a senior Labour politician.
 
 
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SecularAdvocate
Media Watcher
18:07 on 30/01/2012
To all you advocates of the beating of children (no-one else needs it, apparently it only works on kids)

Here's Judge Adams from Texas beating on his daughter with a belt.

http://youtu.be/Wl9y3SIPt7o

And here's the challenge. Find me a video where a child is being smacked where it's apparent that it's being done "properly" and is clearly beneficial to their well-being and outlook.

Good luck.

You people belong in the dark ages, where fear was a viable currency.
Southern law girl
Researching my viewpoint....
16:15 on 31/01/2012
Secular Advocate, I totally agree! I live in the UK, I am about as English as you can get, and I certainly think it is wrong to hit chiildren.
I thought you may be interested in this:
“The Committee on the Rights of the Child has gone beyond condemnation of “excessive” chastisement, and noted in its Concluding Observations on States Parties’ reports and in other comments that any corporal punishment of children, however light, is incompatible with the Convention on the Rights of the Child, citing particular article 19, which requires protection of children “from all forms of physical or mental violence”,”

I attribute this to the Implementation Handbook for the Convention on the Rights of the Child, UNICEF by Rachel Hodgkin and Peter Newell.

This issue is covered by many of the articles within the Convention, which makes clear the position. I think your words dark ages sums it up very well! I upset many people earlier in these comments, the aggression surprised me in that I thought, wrongly of course, we were a little more civilised than that in this Country.
07:30 on 30/01/2012
children are growing up with no fear of their parents,the police,school teachers,they no that they can get away with murder,the laws on their side,you can blame the do gooders medling in other peoples rights ,taking away their right to discipli­ne their own children the way they see fit,now we have illnesses that these children have which boils down to being naughty ,a touchy subject in its self But of course a child with one of these illnesses will get you more benifits
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13:20 on 30/01/2012
Why should anyone grow up with a "fear" of their parents, police, teachers, etc.?
How about growing up with "respect" for them instead? So much easier all round.
13:48 on 30/01/2012
Absolutely. I love my children (they are adult now) my grandchildren and when I was teaching I loved my students. The thought that they should be afraid of me is quite sickening. My pupils trusted me, we worked together and I trusted them even the ones who aren't little angels. We had a lot of respect and affection for each other and if people think we can go forward based on fear they have a short, unhappy and bitter life ahead.
15:50 on 30/01/2012
perhaps fear was the wrong word to use in this case i stand corrected
06:01 on 30/01/2012
Does anyone believe this tosh? Working class parents? More like benefits class parents. The scrotes that were looting didn't have parents. They had A parent (usually some stretched to breaking point mum). As for regularly talking to a Oxbridge educated local MP. In your dreams. Just another MP trying to get noticed and further his career.
06:44 on 30/01/2012
...Beacause hitting children teaches them NOT to use violence.......in what universe? XD
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18:21 on 30/01/2012
I suspect that violence against children, like domestic violence, crosses all social barriers.
05:32 on 30/01/2012
As a kid growing up mum used to say, you wait until your father gets home, that was fear in itself, but to be honest my dad never ever did hit or smack me, mum used to give the odd smack on the leg or bum. As my kids were growing up, my wife and I did the same thing, the odd raised voice also did the trick, I can remember some wicked male teachers whom I am sure got off on inflicting pain on kids for minor incidents. It's an awkward call, as there are so many ignorant mums and dads out there who really have not got a clue.
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novelist2000
veritas non olet
04:36 on 30/01/2012
My observation is that some children are accessible via words less than others. You cannot say that no children should ever be smacked, because they develop a sense of disobedience, and will have difficulty adjusting in any work environment. They will always have difficulties with their supervisor and lose jobs because they have not internalised that there are times to obey and times to do your own thing. Nobody is doing that generation any favour by cultivating a loose and undisciplined attitude.

The 'reddening of the skin' is not a proper measurement, as people with dermatographic skin get red skin so much easier.
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SecularAdvocate
Media Watcher
03:43 on 30/01/2012
A Labour MP who thinks working class kids need a smack.

Wow.

Makes you feel quite queasy, doesn't it?

Here's what a little parental discipline looks like.

http://youtu.be/Wl9y3SIPt7o

I wish we had video of Mr Lammy whacking his kids, so we all know what we're talking about.

Teaching children that big people get to tell small people what to do, or else they'll hurt them, is sick and stupid.

Lots of "I got whacked and it did me good" comments here as usual when this debate surfaces.

Well, it didn't do you good. If you think it's ok to hit children with your hand, shoes and sticks, you are not a well adjusted person.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
keezze
03:37 on 30/01/2012
Smacking hitting biteing punching pinching ect ect kids must be considered a crime, punishment from jail to fine to removal. Its wrong to smack anyone especally children. Just because your butt has been whpped red back in the good ole days dosent make it right for you to continue the ritual. Socities evolve and like it or not kids have rights just like adults...
05:20 on 30/01/2012
Quite right! Its not rocket science. There have been hundreds of episodes on TV showing that it is not remotely necessary to use violence to discipline a child. The naughty step works, it's a fact. The reason for a lack of discipline in todays youth is because we are in an inbetween generation. Between the old fashioned crude but effective violence of the past and the more sophisticated techniques of the modern world. A generation where people use no discipline because they cannot replicate the results of the modern experts and are afraid or unwilling to use the cruelty of the past. The TV shows us that the longer you wait the more effort it takes to bed in the new techniques. The government need to make it clear that violence against children is wrong and if necessary help should be given with learning how to apply modern discipline.
02:26 on 30/01/2012
It's also pretty bloody rich that a Labour MP is making this comment - during their last spell in power they managed to bring this country to it's knees by legislating and regulating most small businesses out of business (they themselves are still earning OK tho'!!)
02:21 on 30/01/2012
Why is it only "working class" children were involved- are upper class children immune to society's rules and regulations - having spent a lot of time around Oxford I can assure you that the "Hooray Henry" brigade are more than capable of causing one hell of a lot of damage in very short order! - an awfull lot of the peolpe involved in the worst anti-social activities are people thet are professional "campaingers" (rioters).

I used to be proud to be firstly English and secondly British - but until the penalty fits the crime sadly nothing is going to change. The justice system needs to understand that they need to bare their teeth before there is a revolution.
01:35 on 30/01/2012
Perhaps the government owned huff post will not allow this comment on to their anti-free speech message board?
I have checked and checked but as I just though the government owned huff post took my comments down yet again. Can huff post stop huffing with me and keep my comments up. And give me a reason why you take them down in the first place???
01:14 on 30/01/2012
a smack , well i have had lot when i was young and a belt and the cane at school .
it sorted me out , i am not no angel and i dont do drugs, but that was along time ago as i am now in my late 40s .
smacking , if you kids need one within reason,if they have done something bad .
i say yes.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Thomas Platt
00:48 on 30/01/2012
There is a profound difference between smacking your child, and child abuse. If you can't tell where the line is then you probably shouldn't be doing either.
03:42 on 30/01/2012
"probably shouldn't be doing either." ???

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that at least one of those falls into the "definitely shouldn't" camp.
ThinkCreeps
Seriously, it's time.
00:47 on 30/01/2012
Sponsored by `Losers for violence'.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
healthanalyst
Banned from commenting, so?
01:14 on 30/01/2012
Ah now I read the article, it makes sense. Sort of, I thought it was something to do with chewing with your mouth open. funny, things get translated differently on this side of the Pond.

though I'd argue its your habit of serving your beer at room temperature. Instead of cold in a frosty mug, but that's for another day.
02:25 on 30/01/2012
In Britain refrigerators are not really necesary, its cold enough, but what with that American Mr Birdseye inventing freezing I supposed we have to have one.
As for all those lips smacking with all those Big Macs, either you will go vegan or to an early grave. It's your choice!
00:38 on 30/01/2012
Judge William Adams thought it was ok to beat his disabled daughter this is what he thought was ok. link below to blog

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2056582/Judge-William-Adams-beats-disabled-daughter-Hillary-16-YouTube-video.html
00:22 on 30/01/2012
I have to agree as I admit to smacking mine. I smacked them for action's which where or would have caused danger or harm, I smacked them for trying to start a fire, messing about on a bridge, for stealing and taking money without asking, for crossing a railway track, for pushing themselves and others off bikes into the road. I also smacked them for being nasty to a physically disabled person and for swearing (once).
I admit to doing this, but after 15 years I can hold my head up with pride when people complement me on having two really nice, polite and kind boys.
Granted they are no angels, after all they are teenager's! but I am proud to say they know right from wrong.
How many parent's these day's can say that.
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SecularAdvocate
Media Watcher
03:28 on 30/01/2012
Teach them spelling as well, did you?
05:26 on 30/01/2012
Proud of being violent towards children. How sad. You should watch supernanny you might learn something.