Welfare Reform: Labour To Take Legal Advice Over Financial Privilege Move

House Of Lords

The Huffington Post UK   Dina Rickman First Posted: 2/02/2012 12:34 Updated: 2/02/2012 12:38

The government have "over-played their hand" in forcing through the welfare reform bill and Labour are taking legal advice, Lords sources have told the Huffington Post UK.

Labour Lords expressed outrage over the government using financial privilege - a measure which means the Commons can push through legislation without consulting the second chamber - over controversial changes to welfare following seven Lords defeats on the matter.

The government over-turned all the Lords changes in parliament on Wednesday evening.

On Thursday morning Conservative Lords leader Lord Strathclyde said he did not think it would be useful for peers to "debate [the matter] endlessly."

Professor Rober Hazell of the UCL constitution unit told the Huffington Post UK on Thursday that the uncommon move set a potentially dangerous precedent and reduce the power of the Lords.

I don't think its significance has yet been adequately appreciated.

"The consequences could be a big tussle between the two houses. If the government and the Commons try to make such a sweeping claim for financial privilege then an awful lot of legislation potentially would come within this wider net and the House of Lords, effectively, will be wasting their time.

"Up to now there has on the whole been a narrower interpretation of financial privilege as relating to tax raising bills. That indeed is the historical origin.

"This is potentially an important extension of the doctrine which, if the Lords were simply to roll over and accept it would significantly restrict their power and their role."

As we reported last night:

The whole process could end up in a judicial review, because it is considered highly unusual for a government to introduce a Bill to Parliament with the intention of it being considered by both Houses, only for it to declare the Bill beyond the auspices of the Lords at this relative late stage in proceedings.
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The government have "over-played their hand" in forcing through the welfare reform bill and Labour are taking legal advice, Lords sources have told the Huffington Post UK. Labour Lords expressed ou...
The government have "over-played their hand" in forcing through the welfare reform bill and Labour are taking legal advice, Lords sources have told the Huffington Post UK. Labour Lords expressed ou...
 
 
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
chrisctpaul
Things can only get better
01:47 AM on 02/15/2012
Unfortunately if you don't like what the government is doing, there isn't much else you can do other than keep a mental note of it. Only in the general election will you be able to have your say.

Politicians are trained in the art of bullcr*p. Most of them have taken on a job they don't really understand, whilst others simply don't care, a few are in it for their own game and that leaves the minority of MP's who actually deserve the job.

In the few months leading to the general election, we are bombarded with promises and policies, the party goes on to be elected, the promises fail and the policies fall short, then we are told to blame the previous government for the mess we are in. This has been the custom for the past few decades.
10:43 AM on 02/03/2012
The scandal is that these legalised parasites who have lived a life of privilege are allowed to impact on Government attempts to make the necessary national budget changes to try and get us out of the mess we're all in.
09:24 AM on 02/03/2012
Looks like tha nasty people have hijacked this again, they will not be happy until the gas chambers are used again this time for the sick and disabled. I don't know how you sleep at night.
08:09 AM on 02/03/2012
I have just had my post removed by the censors of this undemocratic site Huffinginton post is a waste of space and biased to the left wing commies
08:03 AM on 02/03/2012
The unelected would be very wise and take note of the feeling on the street about their action. A lot of decent hard working people have lost their jobs through no fault of their own, and to maintain this stance about the suppossed protection of the "Disabled" and others who choose not to work is a deriliction of their duty to the tax payer. The Labour party are taking this latest action purely as a political opportunity to gather votes, a lot of those made redundant voted labour and see their actions as despicable and repugnent. Those unelected fat cats and hippocitical Bishops are out of touch and need reminding of their resposibilities to the wider community and not their pockets.
09:16 AM on 02/03/2012
So the disabled choose not to work? Get real.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Dombeyandson
06:15 AM on 02/03/2012
DICTATORSHIP UNDER THE GUISE OF DEMOCRACY. Still what can you expect from minority governments, especially as only 25% of those eligible to vote bother so we get the goverment we deserve., DON'T WE??
katertaif
My wife thinks I have one fault. Everything I do!
10:15 AM on 02/03/2012
That is quite correct, we do indeed get the government we vote for.
12:16 AM on 02/03/2012
Perhaps we should look at the "benefit" system that we call the unelected House of Lords and cut those welfare parasites!!!!
katertaif
My wife thinks I have one fault. Everything I do!
10:24 AM on 02/03/2012
We do I think need a second chamber, but I agree with you completely that the one we have is an unelected, and therefore unrepresentative body. Of course it always has been, but the days when our 'nobility' for want of a better word, acually serve the best interests of the people has gone. Many of them are ennobled for no other reason that they are/were good at sports, or as an EU commissioner knew all about ladies bras. They should be elected and not put there because they have served one or other political party. Another reason for having an elected body is that then they would have some authority, real authority that is. The HoL can only hold up legislation for a maximum of three times. Then is the HoC is determined on it, they push it through anyway. That is not democracy by any stretch of the imagination. Although some of our politicians have very elastic imaginations especially where expense sheets come in.
11:40 PM on 02/02/2012
With the goverment being able to do this makes the House of Lords somewhat irrelivant.
10:54 PM on 02/02/2012
Many of these, kick a disabled person when they are down, moan about tax payers money going towards a bit of a benefit for those who cannot work, Nothing like £26,000 a year, But the very same people have no problem watching footballers getting £250,000 for kicking a ball about for a living while many are unable to even keep warm in winter, What kind of people are you, Shame on you all.
12:27 AM on 02/03/2012
Yet another person talking a load of bull! I'm sure I would not be the only one who could take you to more than one or two claiming benefits for years and years. I could also take you to quite a few claiming mobility who are 100% not disabled! I, like the vast majority of the British people, have NO problem with legitimate claimants, but realise that something has to be done with the spongers and con-merchants! Oh! yes, you are correct with regard to the "sportsmen", TV "entertainers,Bankers and Industrialists earning these great sums! But, I'm sure the British people, in general, are also repulsed by this.
09:19 AM on 02/03/2012
Then report the scroungers!
katertaif
My wife thinks I have one fault. Everything I do!
10:25 AM on 02/03/2012
Spot on
10:42 PM on 02/02/2012
Dictatorship at it's best.
10:21 PM on 02/02/2012
Many of the posts so far have saddened me as they reveal a lack of knowledge about the welfare reforms.

I can understand people getting vexated about people on benefits living in luxury homes or receiving more than working families - but actually such situations are comparitively rare (this according to the Government's own statistics). I am all for a clampdown on ridiculous payouts but the reforms mean that huge numbers of people who can't work through no fault of their own will be left in abject poverty. There have already been a number of suicides as a result and the figure will rise.

The best marker of the morality of a nation is how it treats its less fortunate citizens - and this Government (fully supported by people who believe the twaddle they read in the Daily Mail and in other right-wing media) is showing that there is little morality left.

I could agree with some aspects of the welfare reforms more if they would actually save the country some money. The reality is that they won't. Yes, the overall benefits bill will be reduced but it will cost more to implement the reforms than will be saved. In addition, there will be significant extra costs to health and social services as people are effectively thrown on to the heap. Huge amounts of extra revenue could be got through putting an end to tax evasion but will the Government go after their rich cronies (and themselves)? I think not.
11:44 PM on 02/02/2012
how true !! saving a pound in any outgoing payments is fine but NOT when it cost £1.25 to do so,the trouble with ANY of the recent governments is that they will ALL rave about "LOOK HOW MUCH WE HAVE SAVED" by reducing benefits to all these fraudulant claimants,BUT what THEY WILL & HAVE done in the past is keep quiet about what the ACTUAL COSTS have been to make those "supposably" savings,SO far in the last few years any savings that have been made, have also been canceled out by the costs involved in implimenting that saving,in effect costing the tax payer even more than what the original payments were, most of these costs being masked by the extra stealth tax"s they have imposed" & what is it magicians say "Its all done with mirrors"
12:36 AM on 02/03/2012
Suicides????? Where do you get your information to quote this? I bet you are a Labour supporter!
I qualified for £65 per week for the very brief period (5months out of 45yrs) that I had the misfortune to be unemployed! But, it's personal PRIDE and work ethic that got me working again! Something lacking with far to many "unemployed"and "sick" claimants today. How thousands upon thousands of EU persons can come to the UK and find employment but thousands upon thousands of UK citizens can not is strange to say the least! Wake up and smell the coffee!
11:54 PM on 02/03/2012
These thousands of abjabs you talk about are willing to work for far less.... People employ them to exploit them...... simples. And lets face it if people didnt employ them all they have to do is pull the race card .....
07:26 PM on 02/02/2012
Who does get £26,000 (£35,000 free of tax) annually in benefits? You would have to be in a very good job to earn that sort of money.
07:58 PM on 02/02/2012
£26,000 per annum is chicken feed; buy-to-let landlords receive vastly greater sums of public money annually in the form of housing benefit.
01:09 AM on 02/03/2012
have you EVER thought WHY its housing benefit that pays for these homes, UNEMPLOYMENT,LOW WAGES, high social housing rents WOULD NOT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT "WOULD IT""??? also the "AVERAGE" buy to let landlord make on average between 4 & 8% per annum,out of that comes letting agents fees,house repairs,tax, so in the end there is not as much profit to be made as an awfull lot of people would like to think,& its only the MULTIPLE rental house owner that really makes money,OR STUDENT LETS
12:49 AM on 02/03/2012
obviously quite a lot going by the reports on this site !!
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
NOSHER
06:54 PM on 02/02/2012
another comment stopped and its just give off on the telly companies dont want immigrants stopped from coming in that are under 31000 because ther will be ho one to work for them well what about the british that want to work derrr
12:04 AM on 02/03/2012
OF course they do not want immigration reduced,for the simple reason that most find ways around the minimum wage payment,where as the British workers cannot be conned that way,you have only to look at court records to see how many British employers have been fined for employing illegals or legals for that matter but at a reduced rate of pay,& the best of it is HOW MANY ILLEGALS have been found to be working for the IMMIGRATION SERVICES,the DWP, & the NHS even "Celebrities" & MP"s thats the main reason !!
06:20 PM on 02/02/2012
There are times to take action outside the normal scheme of things - and this is one of them. My family earn less than £26000 in total, and could receive far more if we simply sat on our arses on the benefits gravy-train. The balance is all wrong and desperately needs to be addressed. Furthermore, I'd make the money grabbing lazy good-for-nothings actually do some community work (litter pickling, grave digging, ditch clearing, jobs that NEED doing etc.) in return for their benefits, after all, they are paid by the (working) community. That way, maybe, they might realise you shouldn't get owt for nowt!
06:37 PM on 02/02/2012
you clearly do not understand this bill, fortunately the /labour Lords do. You would put grave diggers out of a job, how about your employer putting your family out of work and getting people of the dole to do your jobs for free, you think they wouldn't do that? Think again, and read up on the WHOLE bill.
07:12 PM on 02/02/2012
piginhell that screename certainly suits you, You certainly have not got a grasp of what these reforms would entail.

I am an SAH Stroke survivor that was not a lifestyle choice as I was born with the weak blood vessel and for the record I make no apologizes for the benefits I get as I have earnt them as I returned to work for 17 yrs post stroke until I was one of many that got made redundant at the beginning of the rescission in 2007.

During my working years I claimed no DLA or any other help that was available to me as I had something this Government does not have - morals and waited until I needed the help so you see I have already saved this Government in excess of £80,000 in benefits and other help I could have had.

Oh and btw I already do 16 hrs a week voluntary work why because no one will employ me with my disabilities in paid employment because there are too many able bodied unemployed and employers can pick and choose indeed the disabled are at the bottom of any queue and please do not tell me that is not the case because I have witnessed it one employer even refused to interview me saying I should be on benefits in my condition as I have too many able people in the cue for this job.

That is the reality of life
12:44 AM on 02/03/2012
very true !! there are just TOO MANY fit,capable people available to fill these vacancies for them to even contemplate employing the disabled,most disabled require certain concesions regarding work conditions rangeing from regular breaks over & above those that are a law requirement,to days off due to hospital appointments,or just because they need more rest than the fit,or even that they were / are having a bad day,but NONE of this matters to the government,they are only interested in calling all benefit claimants "FRAUDSTERS" & trying to find any reason possible to stop their payments,& also releasing on a VERY REGULAR basis vindictive statements that just by reading some of these comments are being taken literaly by some who are easy to persuade that ALL CLAIMANTS irregardless of their conditions ARE FRAUDSTERS
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Mickey Mouse 1
There are no lies or deceit on a chess board.
06:03 PM on 02/02/2012
Labour will be miffed if their voters on benefits lose any money so they are bound to object to reform.
06:14 PM on 02/02/2012
I suspect most of the people 'on benefits' to whom you refer are too idle to visit the polling station.

If they do 'lose any money' as a result of these proposals it may just possibly galvanise them into voting at the next election.
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Mickey Mouse 1
There are no lies or deceit on a chess board.
06:21 PM on 02/02/2012
Maybe Labour might take idleness into consideration and send them a taxi when they need their help to get elected?
06:38 PM on 02/02/2012
i would think there are more ex tory voters unemployed these days with all the public sector cuts.
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Mickey Mouse 1
There are no lies or deceit on a chess board.
06:54 PM on 02/02/2012
According to the book "Squandered," Labour spent most of our taxes since 1997 on the public sector to shore up their loyal vote.