Scottish Independence: Cameron Warns On UN Security Council Place

Cameron Salmond

The Huffington Post UK   First Posted: 15/02/2012 23:54 Updated: 16/02/2012 08:36

David Cameron will engage in a high-risk rebuttal of Scottish independence on Thursday, when he'll make a speech in Scotland which warns of the nation being marginalised at the UN Security Council and among NATO.

The PM will say: "We’re stronger, because together we count for more in the world, with a permanent seat on the United Nations Security Council, real clout in NATO and Europe and unique influence with allies all over the world."

In an impassioned speech in which Cameron will state: "It matters head, heart and soul" to him, the PM will say: "Our shared home is under threat and everyone who cares about it needs to speak out."

Number 10 was quick to clarify that there was no suggestion that a post-independence UK would lose its seat on the UN Security Council. But Britain's place there - considered increasingly tenuous given its relative wane as a global power - depends on its nuclear arsenal. How those weapons might be divvied up between England and Scotland will be a major bone of contention in the years leading up to the independence referendum.

Britain's fleet of Trident submarines are largely based in Scotland in order to defend the North Atlantic as part of NATO agreements. Many believe that if Scotland left the union, there would be no adequate alternative base for those submarines in England.

Alex Salmond is on-record as saying that an independent Scotland would not be a nuclear nation. Relocating Trident's existing bases to England would be expensive, and would lead to uncertainty on the current commitment by Britain under NATO to police international waters, particularly in the North Atlantic.

On arguments about economic independence for Scotland, David Cameron said: "Of course, there are arguments that can be made about the volatility of dependence on oil, or the problems of debt and a big banking system. But that’s not the point. The best case for the United Kingdom is entirely positive. We are better off together. Why? Well, first of all, let’s be practical. Inside the United Kingdom, Scotland - just as much as England, Wales and Northern Ireland - is stronger, safer, richer and fairer."

The long-running row on whether Scotland is really subsidised by England is likely to become fractious in the months to come. A study by the independent economic think-tank, the Centre for Economic and Business Research this week suggested that, on balance, Scottish oil revenues were cancelled out by the subsidy paid from London to Edinburgh under the Barnett Formula.

In traveling to Scotland to deliver a firm and personal riposte to rising sentiment there towards leaving the UK, Cameron is taking a significant risk. The PM - like all Tories - lacks popularity in Scotland. Although the Tories, Labour and the Lib Dems all oppose independence, Eton - educated Cameron is seen by many as a potential boon to Alex Salmond's campaign to win the referendum.

The SNP have made no secret of their belief that any involvement by Cameron only helps their cause to win the looming referendum.

Labour has considered drafting in former chancellor Alastair Darling as an ambassador for preserving the union, but it's far from clear who the Tories could deploy for their party.

A spokesman for Alex Salmond replied to the PM's comments on independence by saying: "The fact that the UK has Trident nuclear weapons of mass destruction dumped in Scotland – and wants to waste another £100 billion on a new generation ‘son of Trident’ system – is of absolutely no consolation to someone with a disability being deprived of their Disability Living Allowance."

The most recent poll on Scottish independence - released on the 5th of February - suggested Scots favoured staying within the UK by a margin of 5%.

Also on HuffPost UK:

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David Cameron will engage in a high-risk rebuttal of Scottish independence on Thursday, when he'll make a speech in Scotland which warns of the nation being marginalised at the UN Security Council and...
David Cameron will engage in a high-risk rebuttal of Scottish independence on Thursday, when he'll make a speech in Scotland which warns of the nation being marginalised at the UN Security Council and...
 
 
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08:14 AM on 02/17/2012
So what does happen to the English tax revenue when Scotland goes independent ?
also there is the case of the Scotish oil ,just how much money does cameron lose in direct and indirect taxes ?

You just know what will happen vat for one will go up to 50% road tax will be £1000 and that will be just for a push bike.
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Chiefy17242011
Cyber-Nat, Cyber-Democrat
11:19 AM on 02/17/2012
Well, what we DO know from the Uk Government's own figures (Google GERS REPORT) is that

Scotland has 8.4% of the Population
Scotland Contributes 9.4% of the UK Budget
Scotland Recieves 9.3% of Direct Spending.

In short.

We pay more per head and get back less than we pay.

Taxes, well, that's a matter for whatever Government whatever is left of the UK Votes for.

My betting is that they won't be reducing taxation any time soon and won't be reducing taxes to make up for the surplus that Scotland "contributes".
12:14 PM on 02/17/2012
Chiefy, does the 9.4% budget contribution figure include North Sea Oil revenues?
04:46 AM on 02/17/2012
Alex Salmond must be smoking some serious tree to honestly think independence is a good idea.
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Chiefy17242011
Cyber-Nat, Cyber-Democrat
11:15 AM on 02/17/2012
Well, there's a really valuable contribution to the debate this morning ! Insightful. Witty. My sides are splitting and my head throbbing with the overpowering and compelling nature of your insight.

Care to expand on that at all ? Any logical, reasoned argument against Independence ? Or For the Union for that matter ?
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Allyb999
11:09 PM on 02/17/2012
Must be the pro unionists A team posting on huffy post.
03:21 AM on 02/17/2012
Who cares about Scotland anyway? All they do is get pregnant at 14 and go on Jeremy Kyle.
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Chiefy17242011
Cyber-Nat, Cyber-Democrat
11:09 AM on 02/17/2012
You know, it is a wonder that with incisive, clinical argument and rhetoric like that, razor-shar­p insight, undoubted and marshalled argument, facts presented in such a loquacious­, compelllin­g fashion, that we don't just all give up now and crawl back to our hovels in Brigadoon.
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Allyb999
11:07 PM on 02/17/2012
Says someone with a name like that.
PS just to make this a bit educational for you, men cannot get pregnant so it is very difficult for all Scots to be pregnant at 14.

Scotland is way behind North East England, London, North West England, West Midlands, Yorkshire and the Humber in teenage pregnancies girls ages 13-15.
But hey why let facts get in the way of slagging off a whole nation.
12:18 AM on 02/18/2012
Oh go and drink some Irn-Bru
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Seaniebhoy
02:18 AM on 02/17/2012
Not for nothing, but there is nothing really stopping a Joint England (& Wales)/Scotland military force. Political sovereignty does not mean shutting out your closest neighbor. If the UK military is re-deployed as strictly defensive in nature then I see no reason why it cannot continue in it's present form under two independent nations
10:30 PM on 02/16/2012
" Will ye no come back again?
Will ye no come back again?
Better loed ye canna be;
Will ye no come back again"
10:18 PM on 02/16/2012
I see on the BBC news that Cameroon, the sassenach, wants the Scottish people to vote no and THEN, when they have given away their key bargaining chip, he will think about more devolved powers.
Who does he think he is negotiating with ? Nick Clegg and Liberals ?
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Allyb999
11:40 PM on 02/16/2012
Nice to see the Pro Unionists getting plenty of press coverage, hope the BBC will now give the Pro Independents the same amount of coverage to avoid the BBC being biased.
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Matthew Harrold
Huzzah!
09:00 PM on 02/16/2012
It's kind of sad in the same way that the end of a relationship is sad. England obviously feels like there's further to go, whilst Scotland feels like it's suffocated and wants to date more people...
This comment has been removed.
05:40 PM on 02/16/2012
Who is going to pay for the bureaucratic nightmare that will arise when/if Scotland becomes independent. It won't be like shaking hands over the garden wall amd saying: "So long, mate," There is going to be a mass of red tape to untangle, not to mention who owns what, and who owes what. No one has yet answered that question. No one knows how to answer it, I suspect. It is time it was answered. The electorate on both sides of the border have a right to know, since billions, perhaps trillions of pounds might be involved. Come on, Mr. Salmond, how about you coming up with some answers.
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Allyb999
06:54 PM on 02/16/2012
Trillions?? so you think Indpendence of one country is going to cost more than the whole of the UK debt.
07:35 PM on 02/16/2012
Who knows?
07:01 PM on 02/16/2012
bellsheil - the nearest recent example we have is when Slovakia broke away from Czechslovakia - it required 12000 legal agreements covering just about everything imaginable - took years to draft and agre and there are still unresolved matters still arising that nobody thought off..

Even access to and maintenance to the " party wall " ie Hadrians Wall will have to be negotiated !!!!!!

If you are a Scots lawyer vote for independence - it will make your fortune and keep you in a job for 20 years minimum and at the end of it if you don't like the place the £milions you have earned will enable you to go just about anywhere - you wil be a sure fire winner even if no other Scot is .
07:34 PM on 02/16/2012
One thing is certain. There will be no winners among us taxpayers.
09:46 PM on 02/16/2012
Your right ronnie/ 20 years at least, a legal nightmare,
no stone can be left unturned.
At my age now 65 i cannot even be bothered.
This is one for the young generation.
wes
05:18 PM on 02/16/2012
Cameron should just keep quiet.

England has a great chance in 2014 to get rid of Scotland.
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Allyb999
06:59 PM on 02/16/2012
How many times do I have to say, Scotland is not leaving England. We are having a referendum to leave the Union.
God if half the posters in here spent their time constructively trying to get England a referendum on leaving the Union, rather than bashing the Scottish who have actually fought hard and got a referendum.
08:53 AM on 02/17/2012
the only people who have fought hard to get a referendum are Salmond and his nationalist cronies in order to fulfil their hidden agenda.You keep peddling the nationalist claptrap that anyone in England should keep out od matters to do with Scotland.You defeat your own argument-bring the english into the referendum and you will get the independence that you obviously crave and reality will come down on Scotland like a ton of bricks.
10:16 AM on 02/17/2012
The referendum can be described however you like. It's a means to an end for England regardless.
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Mickey Mouse 1
There are no lies or deceit on a chess board.
04:35 PM on 02/16/2012
Are there any suggestions as to why the English want the Scots to go for independence, as highlighted on Sky News?
05:17 PM on 02/16/2012
we can't accept the monlogues from sky or BBC's news 24. They each have their own agendas and insight of what the UK should look like which is generally biased against the government.
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Mickey Mouse 1
There are no lies or deceit on a chess board.
05:29 PM on 02/16/2012
Can we accept monologues instead from self-serving politicians?
05:18 PM on 02/16/2012
Because England doesn't need Scotland.
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Mickey Mouse 1
There are no lies or deceit on a chess board.
05:27 PM on 02/16/2012
If you say so! Lol
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06:20 PM on 02/16/2012
You're right. England woul be just fine without Scotland, just as Scotland would be just fine without England. DaveC.said so today. Alex Salmond and a large number of Scotland's people have been saying so for a long time.
03:43 PM on 02/16/2012
The coalition can,t even run the country down here so go or it.
03:42 PM on 02/16/2012
English overlords
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04:23 PM on 02/16/2012
Care to expand on that? I suspect you're havering and trolling, but I'm open to some enlightenment.
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Allyb999
12:08 AM on 02/17/2012
See posts like this just fuel the anti scottish sentiment. Instead of decent discussion it lowers the level to slagging.
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03:22 PM on 02/16/2012
Why is it that certain English people just cannot enter the independence debate without becoming abusive to the Scots.?
The two countries have stood shoulder to shoulder with each other through two world wars and through many other hard times .
But the Scots are fed up of being shafted by Westminster and want a fair deal .
However dont let us all get our knickers in a twist just yet as independence is still only a dream.
04:00 PM on 02/16/2012
YOU DONT THINK IT IS BECAUSE YOU HAVE FREE UNIVERSITY FEES, FREE PRESCRIPTIONS, 300 BILLION OFF OF CENTRAL GOVERNMENT A YEAR, AND THEN YOU TELL US NORTH SEA OIL IS YOURS.
04:20 PM on 02/16/2012
We get 300 billion a year? Wow where did that money go?
Last I heard we get c£28 billion a year in our pocket money, but we pay the exchequer a lot more for the prevelige.
Not all of the north sea oil is ours! Only c95% of oil and c58% (and growing) gas is ours.
04:36 PM on 02/16/2012
Yes you are right regarding all the benefits of being Scottish, and havng an honest government, but if the oil is not our , then we have been eroneousnly sending the revenues form some one else`s oil to the Westminster treasury.!
It is published today, that an English based economic think tank, states clearly that any money given by West minster to Scotland is cancelled out by the oil revenue Scotland sends to Westminster. So that make all equal. We then arrive at the situation you are in , where in Scotland , we all pay the same taxes as the English
Therefore , you will know of Scotland s contribution to the UK.I dont for one minute think that the truth will stop the old arguement of whether England subsidises Scotland.
Only independence will do that. .
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sean beamer
"If society fits you comfortably enough, you call
04:59 PM on 02/16/2012
Its because the english feel that they are superior to the scots and look down on em as drunken scum who rely on english hand outs to keep them drunk !