Government Defeated In Lords On Legal Aid And Domestic Violence

Government Defeat Legal Aid Lords

The Huffington Post UK   First Posted: 5/03/2012 16:23 Updated: 5/03/2012 18:47

The government has been defeated three times in the House of Lords on Ken Clarke's legal aid changes, amid concerns that the reforms would deny people access to proper advice and representation.

Peers thwarted the government on the very first amendment they considered, which came from the cross-bench peer Lord Pannick. His amendment creates a duty for the Lord Chancellor to ensure that individuals have access to legal services that effectively meets their needs.

Peers accepted the amendment by 235 votes to 190. Their decision comes after a Lords Constitutional Committee earlier raised serious concerns about the impact Ken Clarke's changes would have on access to justice for those without the means to pay for solicitors.

The government says the Bill is designed to end the "compensation culture" which has grown up in the profession, with people being able to pursue spurious claims in court at the expense of the taxpayer. Many Lords believe the reforms go too far in blocking access to legal aid.

Tory peer Lord Newton of Braintree spoke ahead of the vote in the Lords, telling Peers:

"I don’t doubt the PM and DPM are committed to the freedom, transparency, openness rhetoric which the coalition agreement is littered with. I think they mean it"

"I find it very difficult to see the connection between some of the proposals in this Bill and those declarations – particularly about freedom and justice."

The second defeat for the government came just before 6:00pm on Monday night, and was on a Labour amendment. It requires the Lord Chancellor to ensure that victims of domestic violence are able to access civil legal services in accordance with financial eligibility.

Labour believes that Ken Clarke's definition of domestic violence differs from that used by other deparments - including the UK Border Agency.

The government also wants to introduce a 12-month time limit for victims of domestic violence to claim legal aid after the alleged attack. Labour's amendment passed on Monday night overturns this.

The third defeat was on a more minor point, and surrounds the government's plan to create Director of Legal Aid Case Work. This replaces the Legal Services Board, but peers - led once again by the crossbencher Lord Pannick - believed the new body will not be independent enough from government.

Peers are continuing to scrutinise the Bill at report stage, a process which will take around five days. Further defeats for the government are considered highly likely.

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The government has been defeated three times in the House of Lords on Ken Clarke's legal aid changes, amid concerns that the reforms would deny people access to proper advice and representation. P...
The government has been defeated three times in the House of Lords on Ken Clarke's legal aid changes, amid concerns that the reforms would deny people access to proper advice and representation. P...
 
 
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02:06 PM on 03/06/2012
Legal Aid is there for those who cannot take on big business. It should not be used to line the pockets of lawyers and why those who Suffer Domestic Violence I don’t know.
10:20 AM on 03/06/2012
asylum seekers and terrorists can still get billions in legal aid but if yoe are british and have paid your taxes you do not get it
01:13 AM on 03/06/2012
I wonder what dirty trick the government will pull this time to ensure they get THEIR way,
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08:12 AM on 03/06/2012
In 1999, the BBC wrote:

Mr Murdoch’s main British holding company, Newscorp Investments, has paid no net corporation tax within these shores over the past 11 years. This is despite accumulated pre-tax profits of nearly £1.4bn. Payments were made in some years, but in others rebates were claimed.

The Newscorp Investments stable includes newspapers such as The Times and The Sun as well as a 40% share in the satellite broadcaster BSkyB. Had it paid the full 30% rate on its 1998 profit of £309m, it would have netted the Exchequer £92m. (Enough to buy thousands of school textbooks, something that the Murdoch press is currently encouraging parents to do by way of collecting newspaper tokens.)

Maybe funds from this would help the country.....who knows...Mr C send them a tax bill...every little helps!!
02:41 PM on 03/06/2012
WHY should big business get away with oweing hundreds of million of pounds in tax, without any attempt to recover it,yet if you are a pensioner who owes a couple of pounds your hounded to the ends of the earth !!,one particular pensioner owed 63 pence (thats right 63p) he was hounded & threatened with having his home siezed by the tax man,untill these bxstards start collecting the tax owed by big business they should leave the public alone,surely there has to be laws covering this failure !! & if there is WHY has it not been used against HM Tax office ?? this basically proves that big business IS being protected by government,yet allowing the tax office to hound the little person to death,litteraly as once your dead they still demand a cut from your hard earned cash,even though tax was paid on it prior,what is needed now is for "EVERYONE" to write,phone,basically harress our mps,councilors if fact any politician about this totaly unfair situation !!,if one company is allowed to owe £300+ million how many other companies owe hundreds of thousands if not millions, lets start playing on a level field,ANYONE,private individual or business that has an income HAVE TO pay the FULL amount of tax NO EXCEPTIONS !!! from the pensioner who owes 63p right up to people like murdoch who owe £300+ million !!! this government need to wake up & smell the coffee !!
12:24 AM on 03/06/2012
I have a serious issue with the fact that a claim (not proof) of domestic violence opens up the possibility of legal aid. Ken Clarke and Lord Justice Wall (president of the family courts) are both on record as having said that domestic violence is almost always committed by men upon women - DESPITE official statistics that say otherwise. The outcome: Only women will stand a chance of legal aid.

The next point is that many fathers are accused of domestic violence/abuse/rape simply because they are estranged from the mother but want to see their children. These fathers already face large costs trying to enforce court orders. If this bill goes through with the DV critieria, as stated, then they face having to go to court alone whilst the 'poor me' women get aid heaped on them. I see this every day. All I can suggest is that men get themselves a good Mckenzie friend - like my husband. They will save a bundle on paying lawyers and stand a hell of a better chance of seeing their children.
12:00 AM on 03/06/2012
Another embarrasing defeat for the government. Maybe if they actualy proposed fully though out and researched policies instead of jumping on the popularity band wagon of spin and half truths they may perform a little better.
10:44 PM on 03/05/2012
Wonderful! Is the start of Cameron's crazy reforms being overturned and justice prevailing for the working class in this country? I hope so as the sooner this government finds out that they just cannot overturn basic human rights and get away with it the better for all concerned.
10:04 PM on 03/05/2012
Makes no difference they will still do what they want.
Lord Elpus
If you're going through hell, keep going
12:00 AM on 03/06/2012
If by 'they' you mean those that have been elected by us, then that's fine by me
01:17 AM on 03/06/2012
sure will they have already proved that !! bunch of lieing toerags,devious with it !!
08:56 PM on 03/05/2012
It's occasionally rather useful, isn't it, to have an unelected upper house that is not simply a reflection of the government of the day? That's one of the reasons we don't have 42-day detention.
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Norman Mitchison
08:28 PM on 03/05/2012
They are certainly saving on their heating bills and lining their pockets at the same time.
08:03 PM on 03/05/2012
Legal aid is available in order to give law firms an annual income from the tax payers purse.After all it would not be right if it was just politicians doing the lying , cheating and stealing of tax payers money.
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Mickey Mouse 1
There are no lies or deceit on a chess board.
08:55 PM on 03/05/2012
Spot on, I have Fav'd you!
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Reality always bites
Sometimes just a bit peckish
07:57 PM on 03/05/2012
Why do victims of domestic violence need legal aid.
The perpetrators of domestic violence should be prosecuted- legal aid or not!
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Mickey Mouse 1
There are no lies or deceit on a chess board.
08:56 PM on 03/05/2012
Spot on!
07:25 PM on 03/05/2012
Does this mean there are 190 peers who don't think people should have a right to basic Legal Aid that meets needs.
07:11 PM on 03/05/2012
From legal system only people miss out who need help most? Legal Aid is there to protact most needy people. In domestic violence cases victim have no one to turn to and poor mostly need the help so good is still there for those who needs the most.
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Mickey Mouse 1
There are no lies or deceit on a chess board.
06:53 PM on 03/05/2012
Lawyers would naturally be against not being able to make any money from legal aid.
10:25 PM on 03/05/2012
Spot on, well said
06:50 PM on 03/05/2012
Is it any surprise the Lords defeated the government on the Legal Aid Bill, when most of their Lordships are ex judges? These are the same Lords, who when sat in court, would time after time allow legal aid to all the scoundrels and rogues that came before them, and if they were ever to be found guilty were given non-custodial or derisory sentences.
09:33 PM on 03/05/2012
The grant or refusal of legal aid is nothing to do with judges. Legal Aid is regulated by the Legal Services Commission which is answerable to Parliament through Ken Clarke.
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Dombeyandson
09:47 PM on 03/05/2012
You're very cynical. So you would deny people the right to restitution and justice or are you of the opinion such is the privilege of the well heeled? I'm only sorry that Legal Aid isn't available for all recourse through litigation not just for criminal matters and family matters. Many people are libelled and slandered yet have no finance or means to pursue an action for damages. As for the compensation culture, this is a hoary old chestnut especially when negligence needs to be addressed and the erring party needs to compensate the plaintiff. Of course many injury claims arise from employment and their needs to be the means to rectify wrongs. As for public liability matters equally their needs to be a cultrue of ensuring equality of justice particularly when faced with a plaint against an inusurance company. The assumption is that like allour social services Legal Aid is free - only at point of delivery.