Catholic Gay Marriage Outcry 'Giving People Permission For Bigotry'

The Huffington Post UK   Dina Rickman First Posted: 06/03/2012 11:00 GMT Updated: 31/01/2013 22:04 GMT

The debate over gay marriage has escalated as secular and gay rights groups hit back at suggestions the sanctity of marriage could be undermined by legalising same sex unions, accusing the Catholic Church of "giving people permission for bigotry".

The backlash follows an article in the Daily Telegraph, which revealed the Archbishop of Westminster Vincent Nichols will intervene in the debate on gay marriage in a letter to be read in 2,500 churches this Sunday.

The Roman Catholic leader's letter warns extending marriage could compromise the “distinctive nature” of current partnerships.

In a letter, co-signed by the Archbishop of Southwark, they write: “Neither the Church nor the State has the power to change this fundamental understanding of marriage itself," adding heterosexual marriage is “at the foundation of our society."

But Terry Sanderson, head of the National Secular Society, said the law on gay marriage was "nothing to do with the Church" and "homophobia" lay at the heart of the latest comments.

"What the government is actually proposing is entirely secular in nature, they are only proposing changes to civil marriage," he told The Huffington Post UK.

"I don't think there's any doubt that for all their double talk about it being about religious freedom homophobia does lie at the heart of it. If you see the sort of language the pope uses about gay people it's not just a kind of 'we stick by our biblical morals' it's a kind of 'we are repulsed by this'.

"I think it's very sinister really that these men are using these kind of language. The Catholic Church is shrinking in Britain but in other nations where there's already a culture of homophobia, it gives a kind of permission to be brutal towards gay people.

"Absolutely the Church is responsible for increasing homophobia. They've got permission from the church for bigotry.

"The Catholic Church appears to have decided to create these conflicts with the state - there seems to be a kind of desire by the Catholic Church to create confrontation with the political establishment to give the impression they're being persecuted," she said.

"There's nothing like persecution to get the believers onside."

The Archbishop's comments follow those of Cardinal Keith O'Brien, the leader of the Catholic Church in Scotland who compared gay marriage to legalising slavery on Monday.

Huffington Post blogger Greg Jenner said the cardinal's argument was "self-destructive."

A Catholic lesbian also argued against Cardinal O'Brien, saying in the Daily Record that her uncle, a Catholic priest, had reassured her about her sexuality.

In response to the Archbishop's alleged comments, Andy Wasley of Stonewall said: "No one is proposing to force any religion to conduct same sex marriages, our very strong advice to anyone who doesn't support gay marriage is you shouldn't marry someone of the same sex."

The former Archbishop of Canterbury Lord Carey has also spoken out against gay marriage, writing in the Daily Mail: "Marriage precedes both the state and the church, and neither of these institutions have the right to redefine it in such a fundamental way."

However equalities minister Lynne Featherstone has said the Church does not "own" marriage, arguing in February: "This is not a battle between gay rights and religious beliefs. This is about the underlying principles of family, society and personal freedoms."

A public consultation "to consider how to make civil marriage available" is scheduled to begin this month.

Quick Poll

Do you support gay marriage?

VOTE

FOLLOW HUFFPOST UK

 
 
  • Comments
  • 365
  • Pending Comments
  • 0
  • View FAQ
Post Comment Preview Comment
To reply to a Comment: Click "Reply" at the bottom of the comment; after being approved your comment will appear directly underneath the comment you replied to.
View All
Favorites
Bloggers
Recency  | 
Popularity
Page: 1 2 3 4 5  Next ›  Last »  (5 total)
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
dws51564
History doesn't repeat itself ignorance does
11:28 PM on 03/12/2012
“Neither the Church nor the State has the power to change this fundamental understanding of marriage itself,"

Seems the church is still having issues but the state and the people don't seem to be having any trouble at all. Does the church really think because their dogma doesn't allow for something the state and the people have to abide by that dogma? Where do they think that power comes from exactly? It hasn't worked that way for a long long time now.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
10:16 AM on 03/12/2012
such hipocrisy......there they are putting down gays - the catholic church. Just look at them - with their gold dress and matching gold hats .....lol surrounded by 500 mens up in the vatican, surrounded by the finest antiques in the world....lol hahahahahhahaa who are they kidding????
07:06 PM on 03/07/2012
As this thread draws to a close shall we in the name of diversity agree to calling the debate a draw !
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Paul Wagland
Resistance is fertile
09:03 AM on 03/08/2012
How very Monty Python.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Thismortalcoil
Science is the poetry of reality
10:49 AM on 03/08/2012
That's hilarious!

The Huff poll currently shows that 68.51% of people support gay marriage.

Homophobes are a small and dwindling minority.
03:39 PM on 03/07/2012
I believe you don't hate the church on the contrary, you are unhealthily obsessed with it, I mean seriously you got it bad.
This comment has been removed.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Paul Wagland
Resistance is fertile
10:07 AM on 03/07/2012
Just a little factoid for you: The word 'heretic' comes from the Ancient Greek for 'choice'.

Says a lot about the church, no?
11:33 AM on 03/07/2012
Hoiw can you talk about chice when you appear more interested in slagging off the church rather than allwing them to participate in open debate - a little bit of fascism there ?
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Paul Wagland
Resistance is fertile
12:06 PM on 03/07/2012
The church is welcome to its opinions, but it is not welcome to interfere with civil process.

To explain the difference, let me put it like this. I am free to criticise the church for it's attitudes, but it would be wrong of me to demand that people be prevented from going to church. Is that clear?

Likewise, it's fine for the church to disagree with gay marriage, but clergy should abstain from trying to prevent other people from enjoying that right.
03:18 PM on 03/07/2012
No.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Derek Northcote
09:51 AM on 03/07/2012
I see that Robert Mugabe supports the Cardinal.

Not very good for the Cardinal in the PR dept.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Paul Wagland
Resistance is fertile
10:10 AM on 03/07/2012
Not great for Mugabe either, frankly.
07:09 PM on 03/07/2012
Thats pretty tacky ! Rather demolishes your image as one of the good guys !
11:34 AM on 03/07/2012
Not that long since a UK Prime Minister was literally hugging Qaddafi !
photo
Crisdean Wulver
We've got our priorities screwed up.
05:43 AM on 03/07/2012
Vincent Nichols must be right. His hat tells it all. It's so official looking. I can't imagine God allowing anyone to wear that hat if he didn't speak for God.

I'll bet when he goes out to the pub he has to keep a close eye on the hatrack so that someone doesn't steal it. That's one great hat!

It would be perfect for a New Year's party. And the expression on his face is priceless. It's like he's thinking, "How do you like my hat?"
11:35 AM on 03/07/2012
More comical than cross dressing ?
photo
Crisdean Wulver
We've got our priorities screwed up.
02:06 PM on 03/07/2012
:-D

Anyone who can look at himself in the mirror with that hat on and not burst out laughing, takes himself way too seriously. If he was truly spiritual and truly wise, I think the hat would look to him like a court jester's hat. And it would be a reminder that he should be humble and not take himself too seriously. In fact, I think he may become a better clergyman if he wore a jester's hat. It would remind him that he's not walking on stilts compared to the average human being.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
dws51564
History doesn't repeat itself ignorance does
11:25 PM on 03/12/2012
Hey if you can pull it off and it doesn't hurt anyone. Who cares?
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
03:56 AM on 03/07/2012
“Neither the Church nor the State has the power to change this fundamental understanding of marriage itself,"

....but the people themselves do and have !
photo
SecularAdvocate
Media Watcher
01:56 AM on 03/07/2012
Any practising Catholics here?

Can I ask you a question?

Why are you still a practising Catholic?

What's it going to take before you comprehend the nature of the organisation that you give your name and support to?
This comment has been removed.
11:37 AM on 03/07/2012
Have you read anything of string theory ?
P.s Do you think it will be long before being a catholic becomes a crime ?
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Thismortalcoil
Science is the poetry of reality
09:05 PM on 03/06/2012
The Christian church didn't invent marriage, it has been well documented in ancient civilisations. And these civilisations were considerably more accepting of homosexuality than some churches are now.

"...in the ancient world so few people cared to categorize their contemporaries on the basis of the gender to which they were erotically attracted that no dichotomy to express this distinction was in common use"

-James Boswell”
09:28 PM on 03/06/2012
Perhaps you might give a reference please ? It might also be mentioned that Boswell was rather indifferent to marriage - despite being married himself. So indifferent was he that "he contracted venereal disease at least seventeen times" Glimpses of Glory by R L Greaves.
I am not sure how reliable his observations are ! Especially given his alcohol and gambling addictoions. There are however more relaible authorities to the ancient world.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Thismortalcoil
Science is the poetry of reality
09:46 AM on 03/07/2012
You're being lazy again Gearoid - perhaps you'd like to quote a reliable authority who disagrees with Boswell's assertion?

That would be far more pertinent to this debate than you focusing on the prurient details you so enjoy.
01:26 PM on 03/07/2012
Ha, ha ! I found your authorty for that quote and can see why you were reluctant to give a reference for it !
http://religionpoisons.wordpress.com/2011/07/03/now-god-will-destroy-america/
" Simen Fjeld-Olsen "
photo
gerald1961
Not as nice as I use to be
08:35 PM on 03/06/2012
The question of the day. Why do gays want to "marry". 1) Well for the same reason you do, to be viewed and recognized as united as one by the world. 2) Money. As married they would pay less in taxes, in insurance and in housing. 3) Legal. As married they would have the right to make medical decisions, the right to inheritance and legal protection from discrimination in work and accommodations. Look the church has the right to voice its opinion saying it disapproves of its same sex followers marrying, but it can't tell the rest of us what we can and can not do. Thats like Iran saying that in their religion its against their god's belief to eat beef, so every one in the world can't eat beef (no hambergers). Thats their beliefe, but should it have any effect on me, NO IT DOES NOT, I am not a member of their belief system. Same with the church, I am not a member of your following so you have no right to tell me what to do.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
08:33 AM on 03/07/2012
I agree with you Gerald in the majority of what you say, however, if a gay couple want to get married in a church then the no beef in Iran comes in to force!
In the same way that you ask why should the Church's belief's affect you, I would ask why should your belief's affect the Church and how they view gay marriage?
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Derek Northcote
09:53 AM on 03/07/2012
Irrelevant. This legislation is ONLY about CIVIL marriages.
11:44 AM on 03/07/2012
Does civil union not supply those advantages you refer to ?
And if if gays insist on distunguishinh between gay men and gay women, why is it so wrong in different descritons between different kinds of unions ?
08:34 PM on 03/06/2012
The Pope, Cardinals, Bishops, Monsignors, Priests, Monks, and Nuns should stick to advising only those who are members of the Roman Catholic Church. Their comments are hypocritical because neither the Pope nor any of his officials are heterosexual--they're the real perverts. It should be no surprise that officials of the church are caught so often having sex with young boys. Apparently even Jesus was gay because after that last dinner party at The House of Levi (a well-known gay restaurant at the time) he was caught kissing Judas in the garden behind the house and it was that that got him arrested. Apparently it was a capital offense (just like it is in Iran) because the authorities tried, convicted, and executed him the next day. It all goes to prove that you just don't want to mess with those who claim to be speaking for God.
This comment has been removed.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Paul Wagland
Resistance is fertile
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
07:36 PM on 03/06/2012
thanks for the link Paul, brilliant satire but a very good analysis all the same.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Thismortalcoil
Science is the poetry of reality
08:12 PM on 03/06/2012
"Church officials have backed O’Brien’s statement, claiming that having a pointy hat and a big gold chair means that their two-thousand year-old opinions on the modern world are incredibly important." Genius!
10:09 AM on 03/07/2012
Thank you for the link. You are right, an insightful analysis!