Lorna Fitzsimons

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Why Nick Clegg Should Focus on the Settlement Not the Settlements

Posted: 18/01/2012 00:00

"An act of deliberate vandalism" was how Nick Clegg described Israeli settlement building on Monday. Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, who was in London, cheered him on; his negotiators having made a full settlement freeze a precondition for the resumption of direct negotiations with Israel.

The deputy prime minister was not wrong to articulate widespread international concern. And he was clearly following his Foreign Office briefing. But the demand for a complete halt to all Israeli construction over the Green Line is now a road-block preventing the commencement of bilateral talks. This may not seem fair, but it is the hard reality that we must confront if we want to help rather than hinder the parties reach a final resolution of the conflict.

I am no apologist for settlements, but I want a settlement more. By focusing obsessively on the short-term (something for which we are over-fond of criticising Israel for) we have given ourselves less scope to solve the problem in the long term. We need to practice what we preach and be strategic. Instead, we are too often becoming an unwitting impediment to peace by making settlements the issue - ironic, sad, and maddening, but true.

Yes, Israel must give up all but a small percentage of the West Bank in any conflict-ending agreement. In 2007 Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert offered the Palestinians 93% plus land from Israel to compensate for land annexed from the West Bank. But that's the point - he made the offer inside the negotiating room, face to face with the man with whom the agreement must be struck, when the subject was borders.

By making Israeli settlements (plural) the issue, we inadvertently make the settlement (singular, and conflict-ending) almost impossible to reach because we block the direct negotiations which alone can secure a Palestinian state. No matter how overwhelming the desire to speak out, there are times when we need to practice a self-denying ordinance if we are to help the parties back to the table. We need to ask ourselves religiously whether what we are doing or saying is more or less likely to get the parties to negotiate which we all accept is the only way we will get a deal that both peoples will accept.

Anyone who reads this post as in praise of settlements is missing the point and not listening. I want a settlement but as the Prime Minister said on Tuesday, we can't want it more than the Palestinians or the Israelis.

For four reasons, the way in which settlements are often discussed is counter-productive for all of us who want a lasting settlement and justice for both peoples.

First, settlement policy has never stopped or started negotiations before

The historical record does not bear out the idea that a settlement freeze is the indispensable condition for solving the Israeli-Arab conflict. From 1949-67 Jews were forbidden to live on the West Bank but that did not mean the surrounding Arab states sought peace. After 1967 for a decade only a few strategic settlements were built in the territories, but still the Arabs states refused to negotiate peace with Israel. But once the settlement project got under way after 1977, after the Likud government came to power, Egyptian President Sadat signed a peace treaty with Israel, as did Jordan in 1994 at a time when the number of Jews living in the territories was growing. The Oslo Accords in 1993, Camp David in 2000, the near-thing negotiations at Annapolis in 2007, were all conducted without a settlement freeze.

Conversely, in August 2005, when Israel evacuated all of the settlements in the Gaza Strip and four in the Northern West Bank the result was...more terror attacks.

Let's be clear: the Palestinians are using settlement construction as an excuse for not talking because they don't see negotiations as in their interests. They negotiated with the Olmert government in 2008 with no settlement freeze. And even when Netanyahu went a considerable way to meeting the Palestinian demand, and created a window of opportunity by imposing a ten month moratorium on new construction in November 2010, the Palestinians prevaricated for nine and half months before entering talks. As the US Special Envoy George Mitchell noted "The Palestinians opposed '[the freeze] on the grounds, in their words, that it was worse than useless ... then [it] became indispensable and they said they would not remain in the talks unless that indispensable element were extended."

The inconvenient truth is that when we made settlements the precondition for talks, we made talks absent from the peace process. And there can't be a process without talks.

Second, by making settlements the issue, Abbas and the Palestinians have been put 'up a tree without a ladder'

President Abbas has complained that 'It was Obama who suggested a full settlement freeze... I said OK, I accept. We both went up the tree. After that, he came down with a ladder and he removed the ladder and said to me, jump.'

As we noted in a BICOM analysis at the time, The Bush Administration and Israel had reached a tacit agreement that construction in isolated settlements East of the Security Barrier was effectively frozen, while construction on the basis of 'natural growth' continued in those large settlement blocs close to the Green Line - settlements which at the Camp David negotiations, and at Taba (Clinton Parameters), Geneva, and Annapolis were expected to be retained by Israel in a final status agreement. In a policy error, the Obama administration - seeking to distance itself from Bush-era policies in the Middle East and rebuild America's image - insisted that Israel had to freeze all building, including 'natural growth' to demonstrate good faith. Obama then changed his mind, after wasting two years, but it was too late: Abbas could not look more accommodating to Israel than the US President. We are still wrestling with the consequences of that policy error.

Third, a 'full settlement freeze' is impossible to deliver for Israel

No Israeli government has ever enforced a complete 'freeze' on settlements, i.e. a freeze on all building not just in the West Bank but even those parts of East Jerusalem that are not even seen as 'settlements' in Israel. It is impossible politically, for coalition governments. But it is also impossible in human terms; existing communities, which have typically young and growing populations, cannot freeze their natural growth. Even dovish Israeli President Shimon Peres has pointed out the impracticability of a total freeze, stating that "Israel cannot instruct settlers in existing settlements not to have children or get married." Think of a family with married children living at home with them, who then become pregnant and need extra room. And in time the nursery school or health centre needs expansion. And all this within what the leaked 'Palestinian Papers' tell us even the Palestinian negotiators recognised will remain in Israel proper after a deal.

Fourth, the settlements are almost all concentrated in areas that both sides agree will remain Israel anyway

Settlements are Israel's past. Israel has not built a single new 'settlement' since Oslo in 1993. The unhelpful announcement (and reannouncement!) of historic contracts and the running commentary on each step of the planning process for every extension may make it sound like there are lots of new 'settlements' being built but there simply are not.

The era of Israel grabbing every hill top has long gone. Today, IDF troops play cat and mouse with 'hill-top youth' chasing them off illegal outposts. Slowly, and too infrequently, demolitions have been conducted, recently at Havat Gilad.

Abbas knows that between two thirds and four fifths of the population growth in West Bank settlements since between 2005 and 2010 was within settlement blocks which Israel can expect to keep in a final status agreement. According to data provided by Peace Now, population growth in West Bank settlements between 2005 and 2010 was 63,760. Crucially, approximately two thirds of this growth was West of the border proposed in the Geneva Accords, and four-fifths was West of the proposed route of the Security Barrier.

Settlements have not eaten up vast tracts of the West Bank. The Palestinian Monitor notes that "Settlements are built on less than 3% of the area of the West Bank." Lead Palestinian negotiator Saab Erekat puts the figure at 1.1%. Yes, the surrounding municipally controlled land, and the roads and checkpoints associated with occupation means that a much larger area is currently beyond Palestinian control, but the answer to that is a conflict-ending agreement about borders.

Everyone accepts East Jerusalem will be the capital of a future Palestinian state if there is to be a deal. The Clinton Parameters drawn up at the Taba negotiations in January 2001, stipulate that Jewish neighbourhoods are to go to Israel and Palestinian neighbourhoods are to go to Palestine, while the future of disputed neighbourhoods should be determined through direct negotiations. Sadly, 10 years on, the lack of success in talks means that settlement building in East Jerusalem has made the clear demarcation of a Palestinian capital more complex but not impossible: another reason for urgent direct negotiations which is the only route to a final settlement.

Finally, settlements are reversible. Most Israelis favour withdrawing from all but the largest communities in a conflict-ending agreement. In 2005 Israel pulled out 9,000 settlers from the Gaza Strip, facing down fierce internal opposition.

If we are really serious about peace and statehood for the Palestinians we will focus more on the final settlement and - objectionable as they are - focus less on temporary settlements.

 
"An act of deliberate vandalism" was how Nick Clegg described Israeli settlement building on Monday. Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, who was in London, cheered him on; his negotiators having made...
"An act of deliberate vandalism" was how Nick Clegg described Israeli settlement building on Monday. Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, who was in London, cheered him on; his negotiators having made...
 
 
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15:52 on 16/02/2012
Shame on this article.

By 'small percentage of the West Bank anyway' - are you referring to the 62% of land confiscated by the Israeli government - primarily in the form of settlements?
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montecristo5000
17:26 on 23/01/2012
For a previous commenter, Amnesty International has previously produced a report documenting in detail how Israel rations water for the Palestinians, keeping the lions share for itself and it's followers, while restricting water "to a trickle" for the Palestinians.

http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/report/israel-rations-palestinians-trickle-water-20091027

The settlements are not an accident or a red herring, they are part of a specific and intentional policy of land grabbing and apartheid. To say anything else is disingenuous at best.
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montecristo5000
22:07 on 22/01/2012
Thoroughly dishonest article by a discredited person who is working for a propaganda organisation.

As this article shows

http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/this-is-how-israel-runs-the-british-press.html

The author if this article does the following:

“Throughout the weekend, Bicom staff were in contact with a whole host of BBC and Sky news desks and journalists, ensuring that the most objectively favourable line was taken, and offering talking heads, relevant to the stories unfolding.”

Specialising in media manipulation and massaging the facts. All paid for by the powerful Israeli lobby.

This context is not offered in the article.

The article clearly is an apology for the settlements, despite denying being so.

There is NO reason there can't be a settlement freeze.

The article says an outright lie

"Settlements have not eaten up vast tracts of the West Bank. The Palestinian Monitor notes that "Settlements are built on less than 3% of the area of the West Bank."

In real terms, areas of the West bank remaining palestinian, according to the writers' own source, are 54%. That puts the area under Israel control at 45%.
Michael II
Neither the one, nor the only
07:46 on 23/01/2012
The percentage argument is very misleading, as the percentage is spread right across the West Bank and connected with Israeli-only roads.

I agree that the settlements should not be the only issue on debate here, but it's a pretty good barometer of how seriously the Israeli negotiators are.

On a side note, the Palestinians have handed over their position on borders and security to the Israeli negotiators (who until now had refused to accept them). The ball is in Mr Netanyahu's court.
03:15 on 20/01/2012
Great, indispensable, article, one of the best ive seen on huffpost. Everybody interested in the conflict should read this. Israel is not blameless, but the current obsession with settlements is a red herring.
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MarcEdward
likes all cats more than most people
23:53 on 20/01/2012
There are a lot of reasons why the "Settlements" are not a red herring.
The settlers get priority for water over the Palestinians, and they use far more of it (some even have swimming pools), this causes a lot of resentment among the Palestinians.
The settlers own obnoxious behavior, where they terrorize Palestinians while hiding behind the IDF.
Of course, many believe (I do) that the settlements are not temporary, but more permanent theft of Palestinian land.
Finally, the best reason of all, is that they are illegal, they violate UNSC R 242 and the Camp David Accords. Egypt never violated that peace treaty, Israel has been violating it for more than a decade.
If Israel cannot be trusted to abide by treaties she signs, there is no point in negotiations.
01:02 on 23/01/2012
1) Water is not rationed for the palestinians. Many wealthy palestinians have pools as well. While average water use is higher for israelis in the west bank, this has just as much to do with more modern infrastructure and a generally higher standard of living. I agree that more should be done to ensure an equitable distribution of water, but to state that water rights discrepancies are not a major reason why there is no peace in the region.

2) The vandalism and arson committed by a core group of a few hundred settlers (out of 500,000) is counteracted by vandalism, arson, as well as more insidious violence committed by palestinians against the settlers. Yes, there is marginally more property destruction and vandalism (the last few years, about four times as many palestinian as settler olive trees have been destroyed, for example), but the palestinian actions towards the settlers tend to be more violent and deadly (throwing rocks as a moving vehicle vs. minor arson attacks). It's low scale ethnic conflict, which goes both ways. It should be condemned, but the best way to end the practice is the two state solution.
01:02 on 23/01/2012
3) What makes any of the land the settlements are on "palestinian land". The term has no concrete meaning. There never was a palestinian state. The PLO explicitly denied any palestinian claims to the west bank and gaza. The borders of the west bank represent nothing but the 1948 ceasefire line, which the arabs insisted did NOT constitute a ceasefire line. And many of the settlements were built on land that had previously housed jewish communities that were ethnically cleansed in the 20's and 1948. It is a bigoted argument to claim that it is theft for jews to live to the east of a 65 year old ceasefire line. And almost all of the settlements were built exclusively on empty/state own land.

4) Settlements do NOT violate UN 242, nor the camp david accords, and it is dishonest to say so. And Israel has not violated the camp david accords, which even the egyptian military can agree to. The 4th geneva conventions which many claim to make the settlements illegal only apply to transferred population; the settlers are there on their own volition.
JacksonJones
Absit iniuria verbis!
00:54 on 20/01/2012
Very well thought out article. The settlements are just the latest excuse. As the author notes, before '77 there were hardly any settlements, what was the excuse back then? Before '67 there were no settlements at all, what was the excuse back then?

Despite Messrs. Abbas' and Fayyad's progressive attitude on co-existence, far too much of the PLO and all of Hamas and the other "militant" orgs remain committed to the policy set forth in Khartoum of no peace, ever.

And if you listen to what they actually say, rather than the soft-focus versions presented by usually well-meaning but naive westerners, they are quite honest about it. E.g.:

15 June 2010, Hamas leader Mahmoud Al-Zahhar, Future News TV - "We have liberated Gaza, but have we recognized Israel? Have we given up our lands occupied in 1948? We demand the liberation of the West Bank, and the establishment of a state in the West Bank and Gaza, with Jerusalem as its capital – but without recognizing [Israel]. This is the key – without recognizing the Israeli enemy on a single inch of land. ...
"Our plan for this stage is to liberate any inch of Palestinian land, and to establish a state on it. Our ultimate plan is [to have] Palestine in its entirety. I say this loud and clear so that nobody will accuse me of employing political tactics. We will not recognize the Israeli enemy. "
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MarcEdward
likes all cats more than most people
23:58 on 20/01/2012
Why bring up 1967? Because Israel started a war and seized land from Jordan, Syria, Lebanon and Egypt? 
If settlements "aren't an issue", why not pull them back? Why not allow Palestinians to set up settlements where ever they want in Israel? Because Israelis don't want their land taken!
If you bother to read the Camp David Accords (which, BTW, re-affirm to Israel's complying with UNSC R 242, which states any settlements are illegal) the Israelis promise to remove all Israeli Military and civilians from the Occupied territories (that's the West Bank and Gaza) within 5 years.
I think it's been more than 5 years since Camp David was signed, but the settlements are there as well as the IDF protecting them.
If you cannot abide by the treaties you sign, there's no reason for people to trust you or negotiate is there. 
Hamas - rather a red herring, as while their leadership isn't worth their weight spit, they are not the ones negotiating.
JacksonJones
Absit iniuria verbis!
00:28 on 21/01/2012
Marc, please spare me. The Arab leaders of the day vigorously disagree with you as to who is responsible for the war in 1967. We can go through the whole presentation of quote routine, or you can simply concede the point.

Moreover, when you marshal forces to drive your neighbors into the sea, you really can't be heard to complain that they won't give you another shot at it.

Further, while it may be convenient for your argument to disclaim Hamas, they are a player in the conflict, are at least technically in a unity government with the PA, and I never seem to hear the end of people reminding me that they are the democratically elected representatives of the Palestinian people.

You seem to want to have your cake and eat it, too on the Hamas issue.

As for the Camp David accords, they do not require Israel to abandon the field without a peace agreement with the Palestinians that addresses the legitimate security concerns of the parties involved, including Israel.
12:33 on 19/01/2012
Fitzsimmons condemns Clegg for describing Israeli settlement building as "a deliberate act of vandalism". She argues "...the demand for a complete halt to all Israeli construction over the Green Line is now a road-block preventing the commencement of bilateral talks." - remarkable doublethink. How about "Israeli construction over the Green Line is now a road-block preventing the commencement of bilateral talks" ? She wouldn't say that would she ? In her job whatever Israel does is right.

She even argues that Palestinians must accept Israeli settlements on the West Bank. After all President Bush agreed with Israeli that "natural growth" could continue. How kind of him to decide that Israel could continue grabbing Palestinian land, but then he never took notice of international law. Anyway, what right does an American president have to give away other people's land ?

She asserts, "No Israeli government has ever enforced a complete 'freeze' on settlements... It is impossible politically, for coalition governments. But it is also impossible in human terms; existing communities, which have typically young and growing populations, cannot freeze their natural growth." This amounts to saying to the Palestinians that having occupied your land, taken your water, destroyed your houses, divided you from your crops and animals, obviously we must be allowed to take more and more ! Not much problem about freezing the growth of Palestinian communities then !

You would think that Israel of all nations would understand the immorality of a policy of lebensraum !!!
03:34 on 20/01/2012
"How about Israeli constructi­on over the Green Line is now a road-block preventing the commenceme­nt of bilateral talks" -No, because it's perfectly possible to have bilateral talks while maintaining settlement construction. It happened during the camp david talks with egypt, and was never a precondition for talks before.

Tell me, what makes all the land east of the green line to be "palestinian land"? The green line represents nothing except the ceasefire line from the 1949 war. A ceasefire line that the arabs rejected as being an international boundary, and before the concept of palestinian nationhood even existed. And as mentioned in the article, israel hasn't built a new settlement in years, and no new land is affected by the ongoing settlement construction, which occurs on land that already is part of the settlements. Construction on existing settlements does not harm the palestinians at all on a material basis whatsoever, and even provides and important part of the palestinian economy. No palestinian is losing land, water, housing, or crops and animals because of construction in existing settlements.

The little dig about lebensraum is, besides being inaccurate, extremely offensive and bigoted.
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04:30 on 19/01/2012
This whole discussion misses the main point which is that the pitiful "underdog" oppressed entity named Palestine is no military match with Israel and has accordingy been clobbered in every one of its conflicts by the IDF - and yet it puffs itself up and makes demands on the winner. This is a first in history since in all other cases the winner makes demands on the loser. And more weird yet, the loser refuses to negotiate with the winner? Give me a break. It proves that Israel's enemy is the Arab League for starters and it has not been defeated by Israel. Palestine is a proxy to provide foosoldiers and victim sympathy for the Arabs' continuing efforts to get rid of Israel which started in 1948. I wish Israel would get rid of its settlements except the apartments in annexed Jerusalem - this would force the Arabs to come up with another pretext for not negotiating and continuing the jihad..
06:32 on 19/01/2012
"and yet it (the Palestinian People) puffs itself up and makes demands on the winner"

Gosh, how dare the Palestinian People 'demand' freedom from Israeli occupation and oppression?!
JacksonJones
Absit iniuria verbis!
00:42 on 20/01/2012
That's a cute Disney-fied version of what the Palestinians want. In reality, too many want this:

15 June 2010, Hamas leader Mahmoud Al-Zahhar, Future News TV-:
"We have liberated Gaza, but have we recognized Israel? Have we given up our lands occupied in 1948? We demand the liberation of the West Bank, and the establishment of a state in the West Bank and Gaza, with Jerusalem as its capital – but without recognizing [Israel]. This is the key – without recognizing the Israeli enemy on a single inch of land. ...
"Our plan for this stage is to liberate any inch of Palestinian land, and to establish a state on it. Our ultimate plan is [to have] Palestine in its entirety. I say this loud and clear so that nobody will accuse me of employing political tactics. We will not recognize the Israeli enemy. "
03:35 on 20/01/2012
The problem is that they refuse to compromise in any way.

The green line is nothing more than a 65 year old ceasefire line from a war that predates the concept of palestinian nationhood. Why do they refuse to compromise, and demand 100% of the west bank?
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Freenation
03:46 on 19/01/2012
well settlement has thousands of squatters so technically he should have phrased it as 'settlement housing thousands', now feel better...
02:06 on 19/01/2012
"Yes, Israel must give up all but a small percentage of the West Bank in any conflict-ending agreement" - Lorna Fitzsimons

All of the Israeli settlements in Israeli military occupied Palestinian East Jerusalem, the West Bank and the Syrian Golan Heights are illegal..

This is not just my opinion but also the opinion of the EU, UN, ICJ, US, etc, etc and is based on the very simple fact that Israel has NO recognized sovereignty in any of the aforementioned territories.

Not one nation supports Israel's illegal settlements in fact many world leaders and international bodies have openly condemned these illegal settlements.

Israel has no recognized right or claim to keep "a small percentage of the West Bank".

Any "conflict-ending agreement" which allows Israel to keep any of these illegal settlements is purely at the agreement and discretion of the PLO.
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erehwon2
03:08 on 19/01/2012
Please provide us with documentation showing us how the Palestinians have legal sovereignty over any of the WB. You won't be able to because they never have had it. In the past hundred years, the claim of the Ottoman Empire was followed by British rule and then Jordan claimed the land (an occupation which was not recognized) and finally Israel gained possession of it.

The Palestinians never have had legal sovereignty over any of the land. UN resolution 242 doesn't even mention the Palestinians nor a state of Palestine. Although the Palestinians have registered a claim on the land, it will not be theirs until they negotiate with Israel for it.

Until they reconcile themselves to this fact, they will remain stateless.
03:38 on 19/01/2012
"Please provide us with documentation showing us how the Palestinians have legal sovereignty over any of the WB".

Did I make such a claim? No I didn't.

However you will find that the UN has affirmed, the "permanent sovereignty of the Palestinian people in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, and of the Arab population in the occupied Syrian Golan over their natural resources".

In case you missed the obvious point my comment was in regard to *Israeli sovereignty* or rather the lack of such in the Israeli military occupied lands.

There is no affirmation from any world body or nation in regard to any claim by Israel in regard to sovereignty over one inch of the Palestinian territories under occupation, and that includes East Jerusalem.

Heck Israel can't even make case for such a legal claim in front of the international community.
03:59 on 19/01/2012
"Please provide us with documentat­ion showing us how the Polish German and Russian invaders have legal sovereignt­y over any of the WB Lying those not help your cause.
03:39 on 20/01/2012
Nobody has any recognized sovereignty over the aforementioned territories. Jordan illegally occupied the area after the 1948 war. Given that hundreds of thousands of jews were ethnically cleansed from the west bank and east jerusalem in the late 20s and after the 1948 war, and that the settlement enterprise was established by their descendants, there is nothing wrong with having settlements today from a moral standpoint. From a legal standpoint, the wording of the international law in question makes it quite clear that it doesn't apply to the israeli settlers, who live there on their own free will and were not "transferred" by the government in any way. If a bunch of institutions with a history of institutional bias against israel want to say otherwise, they can go right ahead, but don't be upset if israel ignores them.
Michael II
Neither the one, nor the only
07:58 on 23/01/2012
When the Israeli government makes West Bank land available for development for Israelis only under the protection of an occupying army, I think you can safely the land is being settled by Israel and falls under the Geneva convention.
01:45 on 19/01/2012
More about BICOM (British Israel Communication & research Centre) here: http://tiny.cc/e649h
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07:37 on 19/01/2012
Ouch !
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01:31 on 19/01/2012
This video is two hours long and worth every minute of your time:

http://fora.tv/2012/01/10/The_UN_Should_Admit_Palestine_as_a_Full_Member_State

It's a debate on the question of UN membership for Palestine, but it's also a 101 course on the conflict. If you have time for nothing else, watch Daniel Levy's opening remarks.
01:06 on 19/01/2012
Abbas is only willing to 'negotiate' with the Israelis only if there's nothing much left to negotiate. This is roughly the equivalent of agreeing to go to Las Vegas and place a bet on the roulette wheel only if your winnings are guaranteed in advance.

Another building freeze is off the table, and Abbas knows it very well, which is exactly why he's insisting on it. Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu already gave the 'Palestinians' a 10 month freeze as a unilateral concession before in an attempt to get talks going, something that caused him considerable political damage at home. It turned out to be worthless, because the 'Palestinians' stonewalled for 9 1/2 months and then used Netanyahu's refusal to extend the freeze indefinitely as an excuse to bail out of talks. Netanyahu isn't going to make the same mistake twice.

Actually, the reality is that the 'Palestinians' have little interest in living in peace beside Israel, but merely in getting Israel as close to the indefensible pre '67 lines as possible. People interested in living in peace don't display maps of 'Palestine' with Israel obliterated, don't hold up people who've murdered Israeli civilians as heroes and role models and don't preach Jew hatred in their mosques, schools and media.
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MarcEdward
likes all cats more than most people
01:19 on 19/01/2012
Wrong, the Palestinians don't want to be slowly moved into Jordan and Lebanon, they just want their homes back. 
Shocking, I know, that people want to live in their own homes!
12:15 on 19/01/2012
The same goes for Israelis. The Palestinians can't live with a Jewish state in the ME. Too bad. That is something they are going to have to learn to accept.
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Gui Montag
Former Palestinian Supporter
15:01 on 19/01/2012
“The PLO... has not changed its platform even one iota... the Israeli ideology will collapse in its entirety, and we will begin to progress with our own ideology, Allah willing, and drive them out of all of Palestine.”
- Abbas Zaki, Palestinian Authority representative in Lebanon
(NBN TV, April 9, 2008)

You were saying?
Michael II
Neither the one, nor the only
08:03 on 23/01/2012
The Israeli government maps do not show Palestine on the map. Does that bother you? The PLO recognised the state of Israel. When will the favour be returned?
12:21 on 23/01/2012
No I am not bothered. Israel is a country. There is no Palestine. PLO has never recognized Israel and Abbas refuses to do so now. He has said he will never recognize Israel as a Jewish state. Nothing else matters.
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00:44 on 19/01/2012
YNet commenters flip out over UN report : http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4177710,00.html
03:06 on 19/01/2012
Those Ynuts always get a bee in their bonnet with just about anything and everyone :)
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