Ask any ‘Friends’ fan what the worst storyline in the show’s 10-year run was, and the majority of the time you’ll get the same answer - Rachel and Joey’s brief relationship.
But over 14 years since their romance on the iconic sitcom came to an end, one Twitter user has taken it upon themselves to prove why we were all wrong.
‘Friends’ fan @kaneandgriffin launched into an epic defence of Joey and Rachel in a 100-tweet long thread on the social media site, and we have to say, she has a pretty convincing argument.
In her tweets, she explains why Joey and Rachel actually made much more sense as a couple than Ross and Rachel ever did, while also demonstrating why the former would have made the perfect boyfriend.
We’ll let her take it from here:
1/ In Defense of Rachel and Joey: A Thread
— 💯Skaiplana💯 (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
2/ I'm loving this "let's yell about TV plots point we hate" thing that's happening EXCEPT that it started about Rachel and Joey on Friends
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
3/ I am on record as being absolutely ride-or-die anti-Ross Geller, who is for my money one of television's all-time worst human men.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
4/ And her brief thing with Joey was obviously intended by the writers to artificially draw out Rachel's will they/won't they with Ross.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
5/ A lot of people think it was weird or that it came out of nowhere, BUT I AM HERE TO TELL YOU WHY IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN ENDGAME
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
6/ ARGUMENT #1: Ross Never Saw Rachel As a Friend, But Joey Did.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
7/ From the moment the Friends first meet Rachel, Ross immediately sees her as a romantic prospect. He's never gotten over his crush on her
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
8/ Joey, of course, greets her with "how YOU doin'" and Monica appropriately smacks him down for hitting on a woman on her wedding day
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
9/ But this is presented as Joey's standard greeting to every hot woman ever, not specific to Rachel.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
10/ (We can talk about the overall attitude of men on this show to women as sexual objects another time. 🙄)
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
11/ But Joey's relationship with Rachel is platonic almost right away. They have a genuine friendship.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
12/ He frequently gives her dating advice. (Sometimes questionable af, but, you know. Well-intentioned.)
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
13/ He sets her up on dates with men he thinks she'll like. He lets her crash the set when he's filming and flirt with soap actors.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
14/ Joey has a lot of problems but his supportive, protective relationship with the women friends is one of his best qualities.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
15/ He genuinely loves them and wants them all to be happy and there's no jealousy in it at all.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
16/ HE MAKES HER LAUGH.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
17/ Okay, now contrast this with Ross, who from minute one has labeled Rachel as "his."
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
18/ We're always told that Ross/Rachel was a "friends to lovers" ship but WHAT IS THAT BASED ON??? WHAT FUCKING FRIENDSHIP??
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
19/ He had a crush on her in high school, so he "claimed" her first, and long after they've broken up he resents every man in her life.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
20/ He hides messages from men who call her when they're living together. He's endlessly threatened by the men she dates.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
21/ He outright sabotages her career WE'LL BE COMING BACK TO THIS POINT because he can't get over his Mark thing.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
22/ Ross literally cannot accept that Mark (or any man) could be just friends with Rachel because HE couldn't be "just friends" with Rachel.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
23/ And you'll note that throughout the series it's often Joey telling Ross he doesn't OWN Rachel, while Chandler and Monica enable him.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
24/ Joey is the person who most often tells Ross "dude she's not interested" when she's clearly not. The one who notices what RACHEL wants.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
25/ He doesn't have all this "but he's loved her FOREVER" false nostalgia that makes them all feel like Ross has EARNED Rachel by waiting.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
26/ This is why "nice guys" are often so much shadier than openly, unapologetically promiscuous guys like Joey.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
27/ Joey's feelings for Rachel were born out of genuine friendship. They were roommates. SHE WAS PREGNANT.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
28/ We honestly don't talk enough about how big a deal it is that Joey, the "shallow" one, falls in love with Rachel while she's pregnant.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
29/ It happens the way realistically healthy relationships do: they just start spending a lot more time together.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
30/ He has to LEARN to see Rachel as a romantic prospect because she's always been a friend first. Which was NEVER true for Ross.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
31/ It's not until he takes her on a fake date (because she's pregnant and misses going on fancy dates) when it actually clicks.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
32/ And when he tells Rachel how he feels and she turns him down, contrast that with "WE WERE ON A BREAK"
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
33/ He never blames her and he doesn't let it impact the rest of the group. The friendship stays intact. ROSS GELLER WHAT'S GOOD
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
34/ The forced cop-out ending where they get together & suddenly all the chemistry evaporates was NONSENSE. They could have made this work.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
35/ If the writers had cared enough to try, there was potential there for a fantastic and genre-defying surprise twist to the show.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
36/ ARGUMENT #2: Rachel Deserved Someone Who Understood Why Her Career Was Important to Her.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
(MY DUDES I AM JUST! GETTING! STARTED!)
37/ Y'all. Y'all. It was 13 fucking years ago and I am still furious AT LEAST WEEKLY that Rachel got off that goddamn plane.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
38/ Ross sabotaged her career at every turn. He was "tired of having a relationship with her answering machine."
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
39/ He was jealous of all her male colleagues. He FELL ASLEEP at a work event he demanded she take him to.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
40/ Over and over Ross trivialized her passions, even though I would argue that Rachel's career was always her most interesting arc.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
41/ Somewhere there's a way more feminist version of "Friends" about a spoiled privileged girl who's never had to work a day in her life -
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
42/ - going on to become a brilliant and competent executive at the top of an insanely competitive creative field, as a single mom.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
43/ There are MANY things about "Friends" that don't hold up, but one surprising thing they often get right is career/money storylines.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
44/ (I know. The apartments. I KNOW. Ignore the set design for a second and stick with me.)
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
45/ Some of the most interesting conflicts in the show are when lines are drawn among the friends about who makes more money than who.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
46/ WHICH AS WE ALL KNOW IS A REALISTIC THING THAT HAPPENS IN YOUR 20's AND 30's, SOME OF THOSE PLOTS ARE SO ACCURATE IT HURTS
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
47/ Rachel/Joey/Phoebe are initially the broke ones, while Chandler/Monica/Ross have salaried full-time jobs (though this shifts over time)
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
48/ Hey does anyone remember who gives Rachel her first big break to get out of Central Perk and into the fashion industry? JOEY DID
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
49/ Joey knows what it feels like to be grasping for your big break. But name ONE THING Ross ever did to unselfishly help Rachel's career.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
50/ It's kind of remarkable that, for the token shallow/appearance-driven character, Joey actually seems to care very little about money.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
51/ So he doesn't see Rachel the big-shot fashion exec as qualitatively different from Rachel the scrappy waitress. But Ross CLEARLY does.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
52/ Every step up the ladder towards career success that Rachel takes is interpreted as a step AWAY from him. It's SO. FUCKED. UP.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
53/ No one in the FUCKING WORLD loves Rachel Green more than Monica Geller and yet Monica still wanted her to get on that plane for Paris.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
54/ They ALL did. They GOT it. Rachel was maxed out at her old job. She'd gone as high as she could. She said so REPEATEDLY. She needed more
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
55/ There was nothing left for her professionally in New York, and the Paris job was her literal dream. Her friends wanted her to take it.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
56/ GUESS WHO DIDN'T. FUCKING ROSS. BECAUSE IT'S ALWAYS ABOUT HIM.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
57/ I have never wanted any finale retcon more than for Rachel to be allowed to go to Paris & make a brand-new life. IT PHYSICALLY PAINS ME
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
58/ AM I SUPPOSED TO THINK IT'S ROMANTIC THAT ROSS WENT BEHIND RACHEL'S BACK TO HER BOSS TO MAKE HIM TAKE HER BACK BECAUSE I FUCKING DON'T
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
59/ AM I SUPPOSED TO THINK IT'S A SIGN OF LOVE THAT HE ONLY WANTS A RACHEL WHO IS ECONOMICALLY AND PROFESSIONALLY SUBORDINATE TO HIM
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
60/ HARD FUCKING PASS, TYVM, SHE SHOULD HAVE GONE TO PARIS AND TAKEN SEVERAL LOVERS AND REALIZED THAT SHE OUTGREW ROSS DECADES AGO
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
61/ "That's all well and good, Claire," you're probably saying, after sixty tweets, "but those are just reasons why Ross is shitty ...
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
62/ " ...why is Joey specifically a better romantic prospect?"
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
I'M SO GLAD YOU ASKED
63/ ARGUMENT #3: Joey and Rachel Make Each Other Better, Ross and Rachel Make Each Other Worse
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
64/ So I already mentioned this, but it bears repeating: Joey develops feelings for Rachel while she's VISIBLY pregnant.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
65/ The s1 New Year's episode (best known for Phoebe and Hank Azaria's sad goodbye) features Joey on a date with a single mom.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
66/ The whole time, the kids are treated like a buzzkill. Being a mom is an obstacle to desirability.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
67/ The show also makes repeated and deeply wearying jokes at the expense of fat women on the regular. SIGH.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
68/ So like let's talk about what it says about how Joey has grown tf up that he realizes he's in love with his friend while she's pregnant.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
69/ He happily lets Rachel and Emma move back in with him, despite how much having a baby around disrupts his lifestyle.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
70/ The insanely terrible women Joey brings home, and their brief tenure in his life, is of course a 10-season running joke.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
71/ But it ends after Rachel.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
72/ Joey's first GF after the Rachel crush is Charlie (@aishatyler), hands-down the single greatest love interest on the show. I LOVED her.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
73/ Charlie is nothing like any other woman Joey has ever dated. Falling for Rachel literally teaches Joey that he wants something more.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
74/ Joey learns to love having a baby around, stops being a bad-date punchline and tries to be worthy of a way higher-class lady.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
75/ And he's good for Rachel, too. Circa-Joey's-roommate Rachel is my favorite iteration of all the Rachels.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
76/ SERIOUSLY THINK ABOUT HOW GREAT SHE IS. Short hair, playing the drums, eating spaghetti off the floor, watching "Cujo." What an angel.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
77/ Rachel has been uptight all her life and Joey teaches her how to chill the fuck out. He brings out a sillier side of her.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
78/ Meanwhile, let's discuss how few moments exist in the "Friends" canon where Ross and Rachel are EVER that chill and cute together.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
79/ Everything is ALWAYS fraught. Fighting, jealousy, possessiveness, drama. Their relationship looks EXHAUSTING.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
80/ And it's not just Ross, tbh (although like ... it's mostly Ross). But he makes HER worse too. She's harsher and more tightly-wound.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
81/ I cannot imagine a life where forever having to live with the shadow of "we were on a break" hanging over your head is considered a win.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
82/ But think about how kind and gentle they were with each other when Joey said he had feelings for Rachel and she couldn't say it back.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
83/ Think about an entire lifetime of one or the other of those two conflict-resolution styles, my dudes. SERIOUSLY THINK ABOUT IT
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
84/ Joey: respecting Rachel's feelings. Ross: needing to win every fucking time.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
85/ One of my favorite Joey/Rachel moments is when they're in Barbados for Ross' conference and he's giving his boring keynote speech.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
86/ [BRIEF ASIDE TO NOTE THAT THE SINGLE SERIES-LONG PLOT POINT WHICH HAS AGED THE WORST IS THE FALSE NOTION THAT DINOSAURS ARE BORING]
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
87/ Joey and Rachel are giggling at "homo erectus" together (RELATABLE!), for which Ross and Charlie treat them both like massive idiots.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
88/ Which is yet another sign that Ross thinks Rachel is intellectually beneath him. But Joey just thinks she's hilarious.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
89/ Ross has ALWAYS treated her like she's intellectually beneath him, which is why "just a waitress" cuts so deep on that S2 list.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
90/ Being Mrs. Geller is a ticket to a lifetime of being treated like a dummy at his faculty events with him never sticking up for her.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
91/ And, crucially, this is NOT because Rachel isn't smart. It's because ROSS doesn't think she's smart. No matter how high she advances.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
92/ That's not to say there is no potential downside to Joey, but she'd be treated like a queen instead of patronized forever tbh.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
93/ The bottom line is, the Rachel Ross fell in love with was a teenage fantasy he never outgrew that may have been an illusion all along.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
94/ Ross fell in love with A PICTURE OF HIMSELF AS THE KIND OF MAN WHO COULD DATE A RACHEL and on some level that was always what he wanted.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
95/ Whereas Joey fell in love with a bright, funny, competent single mother he'd been friends with for 7 years and knew inside-out already.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
96/ Yes there's something sweet in the idea of Rachel being Monica's sister, but they basically were already. They don't need Ross for that.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
97/ The only factor in favor of Ross/Rachel endgame is conventional sitcom storytelling structure. Not because they're RIGHT for each other
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
98/ Ross and Rachel were endgame because they were considered INEVITABLE, and I don't dispute that that's where the show was always heading.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
99/ But a S10 surprise twist where Rachel and Joey end up realizing THEY were each other's lobster all along WOULD HAVE CHANGED SITCOM TV
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
100/ Anyway, thank you for your time. I'm going to go watch the Barbados 2-parter again now and cry over what could have been. END RANT.
— kaneandgriffin (@kaneandgriffin) August 8, 2017
See?