PMQs 8 February - NHS Attacks Leave Cameron Floundering

The Huffington Post UK   First Posted: 8/02/2012 10:19 Updated: 8/02/2012 12:52

Pmqs

PMQs this week was a rough ride for David Cameron, who faced a sustained and effective attack from Ed Miliband over the NHS reform. The Health and Social Care Bill returns to the Lords today, and Ed Miliband used all six of his questions to reel off a list of those within the health sector who oppose the reforms, as well as castigate Cameron for reneging on his pledge for no "top-down reorganisation."

Commentators immediately seized on what was fairly limpid support from Cameron for the health secretary Andrew Lansley, who has had a torrid week of alleged briefings against him by Downing Street. All the PM would say was that Lansley's prospects were better than Miliband's. Hardly an enthusiastic backing, frankly.

The PM was expected to throw his weight behind Lansley today - is this his idea of doing so? HuffPost UK came away from PMQs convinced that Lansley was a prime target for either the chop or a reshuffle move.

Lansley was in the chamber - but only just! He was obscured by the Speaker's chair for most MPs. But at least he showed up.

Speaking of limpid support, we weren't bowled over by the PM's backing of Sarah Teather, who didn't vote in favour of the welfare benefit caps when they returned to the Commons last week. She was apparently on departmental business in Sheffield, but the voraciously independent Tory MP Peter Bone basically called for her to be sacked. The PM would only say that Teather was a government minister and as such supported government policy.

The PM was just as vague on Wednesday as Theresa May was the day before on Abu Qatada. All Cameron would say was that the situation was unacceptable, and promised to resolve the Qatada problem. But he didn't have any details about how this would happen, except to say that they were working with Jordan to ensure deportation.

All in all, not a good week for David Cameron at all. Ed Miliband seems to be finding his groove - and his improved performances at PMQs don't seem to have been just a blip. Now we'll have to see if Labour can keep it up on the NHS in the Lords later.

Highlights from PMQs below:

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Reports today that the Childrens' Minister failed to vote on the Benefit Cap.

Why does the PM not sack Teather?

Cameron: The hon lady is a government minister and supports government policy.

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She's on the Health Committee, which took evidence on the implants scandal yesterday.

She manages to spin into a Drop the Bill question...

The PM says the NHS will do everything it can to help women affected, and says that private clinics should feel the "maximum pressure" to help women as well.

But as the evidence session showed yesterday, the industry has no proper record of the women who've had the implants.

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Maybe feeling like it's been a tough half-hour, the PM accuses Labour of failing to stand up for British interests and british jobs. But he's yelling, partly because it's noisy in the chamber, and he's very pink.

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@ adamboultonSKY : COMMENT And that one fell flat too. DC sinking in mud this week. EM reminds that a No10 aide wants Lansley ' taken out and shot', no wonder

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He only said that Lansley's prospects were better than Miliband's. Not sure that's an enthusiastic backing, really. Bound to raise speculation that Lansley will be reshuffled.

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@ iainmartin1 : @SamCoatesTimes right, Cam backing of Lansley was pretty threadbare

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He suggests the abolition of control orders leads to the 'disgusting' prospect of the suspected terrorist walking the streets of Britain.

Cameron admits it's unacceptable, and pledges the government will do everything it can to make sure Qatada is deported.

But as with Theresa May's statement yesterday, it's not clear what's being done exactly.

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Cameron's last answer was pretty weak, just insisting the NHS will get better. Ed Miliband broke with recent form and went hell-for-leather on the NHS and it was a pretty robust takedown by the Labour leader.

Not sure the PM was as flustered as Miliband claimed, but in an exchange which was littered with claim and counter-claim about stats and performance figures, it felt as though Ed Miliband made more of an impression...

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Cameron has just laid into Miliband, saying "even when he moves the goal-posts he can't get it in the back of the net."

Miliband comes back saying it's the PM who's shifted the goal-posts.

"Every day, trust of him on the NHS ebbs away."

Cameron says the career prospects for Andrew Lansley are better than Miliband's

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He says Labour achieved the lowest waiting times in the history of the NHS and goes back on the attack over the PM's trustworthiness regarding 'top-down' reorganisation.

Miliband claims a load of performance stats are worsening. Drop the Bill, he says.

Cameron says if Labour were so competent, why did they lose the election?

The Speaker intervenes and tells Labour MPs to calm down.

Cameron continues saying plenty of NHS stats are improving, especially the number of people on the waiting list.

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It's a dogged and cohesive take-down of the NHS reforms by Ed Miliband, who says it's a "matter of trust". Can the PM say honestly he's kept his promise not to do any top-down reforms?

Cam: If there isn't reform we won't be able to put more money into front-line services, and I won't listen to the people who ran-down the NHS - that is Labour.

The PM lists the PFI scandals and IT failures that happened under Labour, including £300 bills to change a lightbulb.

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Ed Miliband points out that the leftish Tory Reform Group (who are also pro-European) are against the reforms, allegedly.

He then mentions Dr Clare Gerada from the Royal College of GPs, who is against the changes. Tories groan and Ed Miliband seizes on the groans, suggesting Tories don't want to hear any dissent.

Cameron flips on to Wales, where Labour control the NHS. The PM says the budget has been cut and the waiting lists there are lengthening.

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Miliband quotes the Royal College of GPs who say the reforms will do "irreparable damage"

Andrew Lansley is yelling at Miliband and the Labour leader says it's "nice to see him here".

Cameron comes back with a dig on "happy families", the usual Miliband brothers jibe.

The PM says he wants to see services implemented for everyone, insists they are putting more money into the NHS.

"He used to be in favour of the reform," says Cameron, quoting Miliband.

"His health spokesman, sitting right there, said it would be irresponsible to send money on the NHS.

'They're just a bunch of opportunists," Cam concludes.

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He siezes on a quote from the PM from 2011 where Cameron said on the NHS: "We are taking people with us, and it is in that spirit of unity that we want that to continue."

Cameron says 95% of the country is covered by GPs who are not only supporting our reforms, they're implementing them....

...and the Speaker is up already, 5 mins in.

Cameron continues saying that dozens of trusts have written today supporting the reforms. Ann Campbell, a former Labour MP is on top of the list.

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They were more subdued last week.

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The Tory MP for Southend says the coup in the Maldives is lamentable.

PM: We have to be clear, President Nasheed has resigned, but calls for restraint, advises non-essential travel to the main island.

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Labour attacking the fall of front-line police officers.

We say the government says the PROPORTION of front-line officers is up. But they will not admit that the total number of front-line officers are down.

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Hear Hears across the house.

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@ HackneyAbbott : PMQ's Packed & excited House of Commons. Andrew Lansley looking queasy.

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Flanked by Theresa May - Andrew Lansley is here

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@ lucianaberger : @SallyBercow have you come for my ten minute rule bill? *waves*

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Oliver Letwin is great for elevating Cabinet Office questions from what could be a dry half-hour.

Labour MP Jon Ashworth notes that Oliver Letwin is an 'avid follower' of his website and asks whether scrapping the Future Jobs Fund chimes in with the Big Society.

Letwin doesn't really answer the question but admits he is an avid follower of Ashworth's website.

"A most interesting document it is too," he adds.

Here's Jon Ashworth's website. Bookmarking?

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Ahead of PMQs it's Cabinet Office questions.

Peter Bone has asked how many Big Society projects are running at the moment?

Oliver Letwin replies he has "no idea" because it is not a centrally driven project. Peter Bone seems happy about this, but is looking for more funding for a local project.

Letwin says he'll help out.

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The lucky MPs with questions on the order paper at PMQs this week:

Mr Andy Slaughter (Hammersmith)

Mark Hendrick (Preston)

Geraint Davies (Swansea West)

Andrew Miller (Ellesmere Port and Neston)

Andrew Stephenson (Pendle) 

David Rutley (Macclesfield): 

Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak)

Julian Smith (Skipton and Ripon)

Steve Baker (Wycombe)

Caroline Dinenage (Gosport)

Mrs Mary Glindon (North Tyneside)

Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough)

Katy Clark (North Ayrshire and Arran)

Alun Michael (Cardiff South and Penarth)

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PMQs this week was a rough ride for David Cameron, who faced a sustained and effective attack from Ed Miliband over the NHS reform. The Health and Social Care Bill returns to the Lords today, and Ed ...
PMQs this week was a rough ride for David Cameron, who faced a sustained and effective attack from Ed Miliband over the NHS reform. The Health and Social Care Bill returns to the Lords today, and Ed ...
 
 
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09:48 PM on 02/08/2012
Privatisation of the NHS has already started, Hinchinbrook hospital is now run by the foreign private health care company 'Circle'.
Whilst all this blustering and arguing is going on regarding reforms of the NHS , privatisation is being carried out. What a democratic country the UK is .
09:01 PM on 02/08/2012
"Limpid"?
Still, can't believe I missed it, would have been great to see!
09:21 PM on 02/08/2012
Try bbci player
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vividrick
I came, I saw...I had a cup of tea!
08:46 PM on 02/08/2012
Where's your "Calm down dears" now cameron?
08:42 PM on 02/08/2012
It would be best even if he is the prime minister to ignore Dave's rantings.
08:18 PM on 02/08/2012
Just think that once compertition is the norm in the Tory Health Service (THS) what safeguards will be put in place that will ensure that patients medical records are passed on in a timely manner once a patient decides to change supplier?
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Allyb999
11:34 PM on 02/08/2012
Going by the PIP breast implant fiasco, what medical records would there be to pass on?
majdf18148
I have nothing to declare but my curiosity
08:09 PM on 02/08/2012
The NHS NEEDS reform. It doesn't need privatising, it doesn't need hard pressed GPs to run it, it doesn't need to enhance the ethos of the competetive market it is already embroiled in and it can't be reformed whilst facing real time financial cuts.It needs to rid itself of waste, it needs to become a NATIONAL health service where the level and scope of the service to patients is the same regardless of their postcode. It has to accept it can never be all things to all people, it needs to spend its money on caring and curing sick people, people with illnesses and injuries. That might mean it no longer offers treatments such as IVF, tattoo removal, sterilisations, sterilisation reversals and other "non essential" treatments. Controversial maybe but the alternative is higher taxes as the drain on the NHS's resources will only gather pace as time progresses. How many people do you know have been for post discharge follow up appointments only to see a registrar or junior who hasn't even read your notes let alone knows your case? I have and the appointment was worse than useless Extrapolate those figures at £120 per patient per time across the country over a year and see the beginning of the waste I refer to.That's where we need to modernise and rethink the way the NHS runs, not by the turmoil and pseudo part privatisation. Reform is good but not at the expense of ruining the NHS forever.
07:51 PM on 02/08/2012
Perhaps the NHS wouldn't need reforming if we didn't waste countless millions on translation sevices for people who are now using this service without ever contributing a penny towards it.
07:28 PM on 02/08/2012
The people who are saying nothing at the moment to defend the NHS will be the ones who will moan the most when it becomes a private two or three tier system!
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WaveRhydr
DIEBOLD-WE VOTE SO YOU DONT HAVE TO
08:11 PM on 02/08/2012
Im pretty sure that the English people have an idea of how bad American "health care" is. Perhaps you can get your message across to them, by telling them that they will be stuck with American "quality" care.
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WaveRhydr
DIEBOLD-WE VOTE SO YOU DONT HAVE TO
08:16 PM on 02/08/2012
Fanned & Faved. Keep up the good fight:)
06:45 PM on 02/08/2012
If it wasn't for private health care the NHS would be in a terrible state. I believe you should be able to opt out of the NHS system and go private, not have to pay for both providers.
07:06 PM on 02/08/2012
And you would have many 1000s drop out and not even go private , NHS would run out of cash meaning old and poor who can not afford private would die , But hey you would be happy i suppose
07:14 PM on 02/08/2012
Not so, you would have to prove you are in either system.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Dombeyandson
07:24 PM on 02/08/2012
The NHS is not a commercial contract for providing medical care it is a service without terms, conditions, limitations, exclusions and is a not for profit entity, It has no precondition of entry and you are not subject to the DOctrine of Proximate cause and required disclose past medical considtions, which may be excluded under a commercial healthcare plan
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WaveRhydr
DIEBOLD-WE VOTE SO YOU DONT HAVE TO
08:13 PM on 02/08/2012
What a magnificent thing! And as re the private system your Over Lords want to provide you with, like the one provided to us in The USA, you have no idea how very bad it would be.
05:55 PM on 02/08/2012
What's the difference - the Govt. doesn't care about the public & neither does the NHS!
06:50 PM on 02/08/2012
NHS cared about me when i smashed my finger up at work 3 years ago, they rebuilt it and care i got was very good and i am a member of the public
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Allyb999
11:42 PM on 02/08/2012
It is very easy to have a go at the NHS, treating millions every year there are bound to be complaints. But what is hardly ever heard are the millions of patients who are very happy with the treatment given by the NHS. If we lose the NHS, then things will get much worse.
05:30 PM on 02/08/2012
The government should tread carefully where the NHS is concerned. To rock the boat on the one institution the public holds most dear is a risky business and they should make sure there are real improvements to patient care before making changes.
05:57 PM on 02/08/2012
Can you name the members of the public who hold most dear the NHS?
06:41 PM on 02/08/2012
You can always go private or even go abroad for your health checks or ops if you want , you are not forced to use the NHS
07:23 PM on 02/08/2012
I am one of them.
04:56 PM on 02/08/2012
He doesn't do very well when he has to veer off script, bout time Ed showed some guts.
04:38 PM on 02/08/2012
I;d be very wary of private health care if they're not capable of maintaining proper records.
04:56 PM on 02/08/2012
yes it does make you wonder what this govt is trying to let us in for.
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WaveRhydr
DIEBOLD-WE VOTE SO YOU DONT HAVE TO
08:14 PM on 02/08/2012
One word: America. And no, you dont know how bad that is now.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
mokgee
Sabu.Satsang, Samsara, Solitude...
04:24 PM on 02/08/2012
There they are, the 3 stooges, they were very funny also, but innocently beleivable, not like this lot of Pinnochios, and he was Disney, an inanimate object of fun, but sadly lied for a living. Yep just like this lot of Liebour replacements.....
03:51 PM on 02/08/2012
PMQ's is a complete farce, and should be renamed PM's Childish Insult Time!

To be honest, none of them are any better. The footage of PMQ's is seen all around the world, so is it any wonder nobody takes us seriously!

Whatever happened to 'Leading by Example'?

Imagine if you went into a meeting at work and behaved like MP's do.....how long would you be in a job for?

Send them one final message at the next election and remember the Spoilt Vote Protest!