Devomax Should Be Part Of The Scottish Independence Referendum Ballot, Say Experts

Devomax Scottish Independence

The Huffington Post UK   First Posted: 7/03/2012 16:35 Updated: 7/03/2012 16:44

The option of greater devolution for Scotland - so-called "Devomax" - should be included somewhere on the ballot paper in the looming Scottish independence referendum, political scientists and pollsters have told MPs at Westminster.

The Scottish Affairs committee was taking evidence for a report on the vote, which will happen before the end of 2014.

Peter Kellner, president of the polling company YouGov, told MPs there was clearly significant support for Devomax and it needed to be tested at the polls in some way.

"It is quite clear that Devomax is a major player and has popularity," he told MPs, saying it would be "perverse" to rule it out.

But constitutional experts agreed that exactly what was on offer in terms of greater devolution needed to be a lot more clear, and that the Scottish and UK governments needed to clarify this urgently.

"We know that people say that they want more, but you could say they've been offered a menu without prices," said Professor Iain McLean, Fellow in Politics at Nuffield College, Oxford.

He said that while there was "no one optimal solution" in how to set the questions in the referendum, there was a "danger of a binary referendum taking place when the underlying public opinion is not binary".

Negotiations between London and Edinburgh are continuing, but there is little sign of an agreement in the offing about what should be on the referendum ballot paper.

David Cameron has insisted that the referendum, whenever it comes, should be a straight yes/no decision, at least in the first instance.

Alex Salmond is said to prefer there being three questions - with a Devomax option coming after the in-or-out options. This has been rejected by the coalition in London, which believes it could create confusion if the outcome saw a narrow majority for independence, but an even larger one for Devomax.

Other experts agreed that there was a strong case for the question of Devomax being put to the public at the same time as the more general question of a yes/no independence question.

Professor John Curtice from Strathclyde University told MPs that the impasse between the UK coalition government and the SNP could be solved by having two separate questions on the ballot paper.

"First of all have the straight, clear question, which is, 'Do you want Scotland to become an independent country or not," he said.

"Then you can have a second question on the paper, saying if Scotland remains part of the UK, do you want Devomax.'

"The truth is there is no one single option," he concluded, suggesting that most polls indicated the Scottish electorate was currently split three ways - with about a third of the population each wanting independence, the status quo or Devomax.

Professor Vernon Bogdanor from Kings College London said there was a "powerful argument" for holding a referendum on Devomax at a later date, assuming a straight yes/no vote produced a clear decision among Scots to remain in the UK.

But he agreed that Westminster would have to be clear - before the first referendum - what powers it was proposing to transfer. "There must be a clear specification, there can't be a mystery prize," he told MPs.

On the issue of which powers would be reserved to Westminster under a Devmoax solution, John Curtice said about two thirds of Scots wanted to see full control in Edinburgh over taxation and welfare payments. But he said that Scots were much less keen overall on Holyrood taking control of defence of foreign affairs.

"There is a clear dividing line," he said.

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The option of greater devolution for Scotland - so-called "Devomax" - should be included somewhere on the ballot paper in the looming Scottish independence referendum, political scientists and pollste...
The option of greater devolution for Scotland - so-called "Devomax" - should be included somewhere on the ballot paper in the looming Scottish independence referendum, political scientists and pollste...
 
 
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06:03 PM on 04/28/2012
Donald trump is againist scottish independce, you should listen to him he is a smart man and better than you
01:02 PM on 04/15/2012
I am happy to hear that brief comment from Hearthammer, as it is useful to hear from someone who apparently has inside knowledge to clarify a particular aspect that even the politicians haven't explored. I assume that the BBC will still be available throughout Scotland if there is independence, although as an independent country they won't, of course, be contributing to the licence fee. But I suppose that also happens with the BBC's special channel for Iran
06:30 PM on 04/24/2012
BBC Scotland, think about what the letters BBC stand for Bill? lol
A clue for you: UK, Britain and England, outside of England itself, those three names do not all mean the same thing.
07:36 PM on 04/24/2012
Because the UK has included England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales for everyone's life who are living on these islands, the term British was coined to include all four nations. BBC Scotland was an arm of the British Broadcasting Corporation. For Wales, for instance, it creates a channel in the Welsh language. But originally I wasn't making a point, I was asking questions, simply curious about the nitty gritty things that will be affected if Scotland becomes an independent country. One of those was the position of the BBC. I only asked and I wondered if, with independence, the Scots would continue getting BBC programmes, but would no longer have to pay a licence fee, which would mean an increased fee for viewers who were left as part of the Union. There seemed to be an antagonistic reaction to my simply posing a few questions. While I believed that we were becoming a more diverse society, it seemed that Scotland was going in a different direction. Good luck to them. With the reaction to the dialogues I think the Scots should become independent, they have a 'Braveheart' syndrome, even though that film was partly fiction.
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07:30 PM on 04/07/2012
must remember to tape braveheart tonight.
01:47 PM on 03/18/2012
When, or if, the Scots decide on becoming an independent country separate from the rest of the UK, there will be huge complex issues to tackle. A simple one is the situation with the BBC. I assume that if Scotland was a separate country, they will not agree to paying a licence fee to the BBC - and I suspect that they will still receive all the BBC programmes without having to pay for them. Without any licence fees from Scotland, the BBC will either have to increase the fee to the rest of the UK or reduce its production. The rest of the UK will resent having to pay an increase in their fee while Scotland will be receiving BBC programmes for free. The BBC will have to move its organisation in Scotland and close BBC Scotland, although I suspect they will just sell it to a Scottish company. This is just speculation, perhaps the Scottish people will opt for keeping the BBC and continue paying the licence fee.
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hearthammer
If left is right and right is wrong, decide!
05:18 PM on 04/12/2012
There will be no BBC Scotland. Problem solved.
12:43 AM on 04/25/2012
if they vote for a republic then they don't deserve the BBC or any other British institution. Good riddance to them.
11:34 AM on 03/16/2012
When Gordon Brown was Prime Minister, a number of cabinet ministers were also Scots. I had no problem with that. My problem was that I was trapped in the feudal leasehold system in England. The Scottish Parliament got rid of the insidious and unfair leasehold system. I wrote to Gordon Brown about it. He had no intention of amending leasehold law to be fairer to leaseholders in England, even though his own constituents weren't crippled by it. In fact, he made it even worse for leaseholders by introducing the 'marriage' fee, which meant that when a person had a lease drop to eighty years they had to pay a huge fee sometimes amounting to £75,000 for their lease to be extended, as for each year that passed, their lease became less valuable. During Labour's reign they introduced 24 hour drinking, relaxed the gambling laws and reduced the category for marijuana. The 24 hour drinking has been a disaster and a burden on hospital emergency units, cannabis can have a bad effect on a person psychologically and more and more people will be developing a gambling habit. I'm at an age now where I know that my vote doesn't mean spit and anyone who says if I don't like something in Government, to use my vote, is living in cloud cuckoo land.
11:11 PM on 03/16/2012
I agree with almost everything thing you have written..votes matter, if those that felt as strongly as you do about a certain topic, it would be wrong not to register your support, or otherwise, in your vote. Not voting is a vote in favour of something you morally object to.
11:33 PM on 03/12/2012
I've just seen one of these alleged "experts", a professor at Oxford University, being interviewed on BBC Newsnight Scotland. He turned out to be both surprisingly incoherent and remarkably ignorant. The Newsnight presenter gave him a much easier time than he deserved.
10:45 PM on 03/12/2012
If our bathroom should spring a leak and threaten to flood the house, I’ll call a plumber; an expert. If there should be dangerously faulty electrical wiring, I’ll call an electrician; an expert. Bu where political matters are concerned, we should reject the whole idea of “experts”. According to the headline on this report, “Devomax Should Be Part Of The Scottish Independence Referendum Ballot, Say Experts” Who are these alleged “experts”, and what are they allegedly “expert” at? Answer, they are charlatans, expert at nothing except making their opinion sound more important than the next person’s; which it isn’t.
09:23 PM on 03/12/2012
It is meaningless to say, as this report does, “The Scottish and UK governments need to clarify this urgently”. The Scottish Parliament has a right to seek independence, but it does NOT have a right to “greater powers”, since that would be a matter which concerned the whole of the UK. Since the policy of the current Scottish government is to advocate independence, it is NOT up to them to clarify any option which falls short of independence. That is up to those who advocate such an option. David Cameron has talked of further devolution of powers to Holyrood, short of independence. It is up to him and the UK government to clarify what this means. It is up to the Tory party to campaign for that option. It is also up to the Labour Party and the LibDems to campaign for the Tory proposals if they agree with them. All of this depends on these proposals being clarified, and it’s not up to the Scottish government to do that. And in any case, I see no need for any “second question” on the referendum ballot paper. David Cameron has stated that a “No” vote will be taken as an endorsement of further devolution of powers. That being the case, it’s still true we only need one question - independence, yes or no.
01:36 PM on 03/12/2012
Actually, from the comments on this topic, there is no love lost between either side. It's true that the Scots seem to have a deep-rooted hatred of the English, based on events that happened hundreds of years ago - obviously long before any living Scot was ever conceived. Similar to the French who are still furious about the battle of Waterloo. When my son went to Glasgow he told me how surprised he was at the actual hatred he was greeted with because he was English.
It seems apparent to me that the two sides, who share the same island, aren't really compatible and I therefore think it will suit everyone if the Scots voted for their independence, which they have virtually achieved anyway with their own parliament and the running of their affairs - a situation in which they are treated better than the English are by the Westminster Parliament.
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05:16 PM on 03/12/2012
"there is no love lost between either side"

and yet, you go on to blame the Scots :(

The only groups who repeatedly refer to incidents of 300 years ago are Unionists and our English neighbours. Why is so difficult for those outside Scotland to understand that it's not about what happened in the past, England, the English or the UK, that's important to us, but what we can do for ourselves in the future and the ideals and aspirations we have?

We all have anecdotal tales - I travel to Wales with a party of rugby supporters every second year. For years we stayed in Ross-On-Wye for the weekend of the match (not sure why). We don't any more. Not because it isn't a lovely wee town, great pubs and restaurants but because the local young men took a real dislike to us. The women of the town would flock round us, enjoying our company and our generosity, we sang, danced, wore our kilts, they laughed and had a great time, Maybe the local men were just your everyday neds. There again maybe they were jealous that we had something they didn't - now there's a thought.
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hearthammer
If left is right and right is wrong, decide!
05:27 PM on 04/12/2012
All we want to do is elect our own government and spend our own taxes. Why is that such a problem?
10:35 AM on 03/16/2012
Being of English stock on my father's side. my grandmother was an actual cockney sparrer, Irish on my mother's side, while I lived in Watford I was targeted, because of my Scottish accent, for abuse from our multicultural friends south of the border who wanted to beat it out of me.

Thing is a lot of Scots are actually English, and many other ethic origins besides, even some Scottish government ministers are English born and yet we Scots vote them into the highest positions in the land.

Your 'deep hatred' is as deep as that which we have for the christmas pantomime baddy, Arsenal fans for Chelsea, everybody for Man Utd. Point is; up here the thing that matters is where we are all going, not where we came from, no-one chooses where they are born so we can hardly take credit for an accident of birth.

Any hatred that there is is based on tv punditry we have to put up with day in day out, and reaction to xenophobic bigots who have issues to anyone with a 'funny' accent, a different skin tone to themselves, or who dress differently to them, and the vast majority, but not all, of those bigots have English accents!
11:31 AM on 03/16/2012
Know what you mean Bawdrons, the kilt wearer is a certified babe-magnet!
Particularly south of the border.
12:17 PM on 03/10/2012
To the censors at huff, why bother inviting comment when you wont allow non insulting replys to insults previously left here? i have had enough of your hypocrisy you are a complete wast of time and energy and are beneath contempt!

Lets see if you leave this one up eh.
05:59 PM on 03/09/2012
I pity the Scots for having to put up with all this tripe from the terrified corridors of power in Westminster, they'll bow to any Scots demand to retain the union, devomax, there you go Alex, just as long as we can continue to milk you dry as they've done to every region of the UK to keep London and its wealthy residents in the manner to which they've become accustomed. Keep to the straight and narrow up there, take nothing short of independence and boot the EU into touch while you're on, control from outside your own borders will prove more costly in the long run, we in England know this for certain, pity we don't know whose in control, EU/USA/ISRAEL, take your pick, just dont take devomax.
09:59 PM on 03/09/2012
Well said matey, i apparently can't comment about this treatment without being accused of racism as im "scotch" but you said it all anyway.
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tc-byrne
Victoria Concordia Crescit
12:58 AM on 03/10/2012
So your "scotch" are you, as far as aware thats a term used by americans to describe a blend of whisky, i dont think any self respecting scot would refur to themselves as a drink, I know my family and friends in scotland wouldn't ?
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08:14 PM on 03/10/2012
Och! That's just the usual, the GERS, (Government Expenditure & Revenue, Scotland), figures have shown the Scots in Fiscal Surplus for the last 6 years. The figures are a bit skewed as they don't give all the Scottish revenues properly. For example they don't include the revenue earned Scottish Crown Estate Rentals & Royalties as these are lumped in with England's. They only credit Scotland with an 8.4% per capita share of Oil & Gas Revenues instead of the 95%-98% geographic share. The fines collected in Scotland go right to the Treasury, just to mention a few. So you see it is really laughable when Englanders claim they subsidise the Scots when Wastemonster is in Fiscal Deficit to the tune of £3 Trillion. Fiscal Deficit means a country cannot raise enough revenue to support herself and has to borrow, (issue Gilts), to make up the difference.
08:50 PM on 03/10/2012
Aye but it keeps the printers busy making more money eh, bring it on i say.
I used to take offence at their insults but i've read so many now that i've developed an imunity to them and in fact i find them amusing sometimes, ignorance knows no bounds for the unionists.
08:24 AM on 03/13/2012
I'm sure we in Westmonster can shift the defict onto the scots before the scots become a republic, hopefully, outside the UK...we may as well, you blame us for everything else, even that winter months that have an 'r' in it.
08:25 PM on 03/08/2012
To all the people who would like to deny us (the scots) Independence. The scots have longbeen looked upon by the english. As some sort of parasite. For which the english have been paying for. This of course is a total nonsense. The scots have always contributed more than they receieve.
But none more than in the last 30years. Since the english started stealing scottish oil and gas. This is the money that has helped build wealth in the south east of england. This is wrong. This money should have been used to help all of the uk. Recently this these reserves have been worth 42.5million a day. To the uk treasury. Its scotlands time. And only a vote for scottish independence is the right vote
11:30 PM on 03/08/2012
Im afraid you are wasting your time with these people, they are programed to think the way they do. You could compare trying to inform the majority of "Inglish" as to the actual situation in regards to our union, to telling your dog to hand over rights to his kennel - to the cat next door to use as a toliet, as it is a higher form of life and more deserving of the privallige. He wont listen or understand and the cat won't care as long as it can poo somewhere.
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tc-byrne
Victoria Concordia Crescit
12:44 PM on 03/09/2012
Well that was a bit long winded, you could have cut that down to a short sentance,ie; "I Hate The English", that would have cover it. Dont you think old chap!.
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majdf18148
I have nothing to declare but my curiosity
07:47 PM on 03/08/2012
The independence question should explicitly not be tainted with the complication of a potential "sweetening" get out clause for dithering Scottish voters. The issue is toxic enough as it is, attracting rank bitterness from nationalists and retaliatory anger from Unionist and disgruntled Engish people.The question should comprise a simple "For" or "Against" full independence of Scotland and its withdrawal from the Union.There should be no attempts to keep a country in a Union it doesn't wish to belong to. Any split should be full and final. That all aside, arguing with nationalists about who pays more and who gets more, the benefits or otherwise of the Union or its demise et al is futile and unnecessary. The Union will hold strong. How can I be so sure? Because I know there are more Scots who understand the value of its continuation than those who don't. Happy to put my claims to the test come the day.
09:13 PM on 03/10/2012
There are good economic and political grounds for Scotland's Independence. It really has little to do with patriotism, hate or envy. The truth is the governments own figures prove Scotland has been subsidising Westminster for many years. There are also political points. Westminster is hell bent privitising everything. Scotlan's way is free Prescriptions, free home-care for the elderly, free Higher Education, more Bobbies on the Beat, and the Modern Apprentice Scheme. We want to keep out Health Service in public control and much, much more.Your belief the Scots will wake up and find some loyalty to a system that treats them as second class citizens can be forgotten, they won't. The State Broadcasters are doing a great propaganda job, but are failing. The SNP gain paid up members faster than you know. The others are loseing members so fast won't publish membership data. It's going to happen.
04:58 PM on 03/11/2012
Quite, if the vote resulted in a majority for "Devomax", it should be taken as a "Yes". Anything less involves the whole of the UK since it would affect policy in England, Wales and N. Ireland.
06:25 PM on 03/08/2012
The comments of Sparrowlad and others made me realise how intense the feeling is with some Scots, a fierce sense of patriotism. In a world which needs to come together, I'm not sure whether a deep sense of nationalism is a good thing. Living in London it seems as if we are part of a much broader world, where people from all parts of the earth live and work together. When I first moved down my neighbours included families from Austria, Hungary, Spain and France. These days its even more diverse. Perhaps this is the direction people should go, rather than have such an intense feeling about a region they were born in. I come from Liverpool and have a love for the city, but I also love lots of other places around the word where I have been and have met wonderful people from so many other countries. There was a certain quote about patriotism made by a wise man.
majdf18148
I have nothing to declare but my curiosity
07:56 PM on 03/08/2012
You may be thinking of "dissent is the highest form of patriotism" wrongly attributed to Thomas Jefferson.
I prefer;
Patriotism is not a short, frenzied outburst of emotion but the tranquil and steady dedication of a lifetime".
Puts most of the "ranters" into perspective.
Have a nice evening. I agree with your sentiments.
09:03 AM on 03/09/2012
@Bill,

So you'll be happy to see westminster closed down and all and I stress all, decisions taken by Brussels so we can all be one big happy family.