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Willard Foxton

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Labour, 'Benefit Scroungers' and Rightwing Fool's Gold.

Posted: 03/01/12 05:00 GMT

It's fair to say, plenty of people have doubts about the current Labour frontbench. Nothing has convinced me more that they are incompetent than the leaking of a speech that Liam 'There's no money left' Byrne will give this week.

In this speech, fully endorsed by Ed Miliband, Byrne will attack "evil" benefit scroungers who are destroying William Beveridge's vision of the welfare state.

Leaving aside the irony of a man who charges the taxpayer, £400 a month for his food bill accusing others of being "evil" scroungers, is it just yet another crude attempt to outflank the Tories from the right? Just yet another demonstration of the current hopeless Labour plan being all tactics, no strategy?

No, this one is worse than all the rest. Why?

A senior Labour figure, with the backing of the Labour party leader, will attack the poorest and most vulnerable people in society - kicking them while they are quite literally down, in the middle of a recession. This is exactly the kind of attack by elites on ordinary people that the Labour party was founded to oppose.

Can you imagine the meeting where this plan was floated? And bear in mind, there will not have been one meeting, but several meetings. When you have a party where shadow ministerial statements have to be signed off in advance by the Leader and the Shadow Chancellor, this has had too many Oxbridge graduates, who think they are qualified to run the country, look it over and say "yes."

The policy at the core of the speech is to link eligibility for benefits to taxes paid. It absolutely boggles my mind that this policy could be proposed when the key problem of the moment is youth unemployment - young people have often never *had* the opportunity to pay income taxes. I know Youth unemployment is a big deal because Labour have been (rightly) banging on about it for months. It makes me question whether they even listen to their own statements anymore.

You would think Labour MPs would get this problem with the policy. You might also think, as they broadly represent constituencies in the old industrial heartlands, they might understand things like structural unemployment in welsh mining valleys, or in post-industrial cities like Sheffield or Manchester. Apparently not. They also miss the point that the poorest pay the highest share of deeply regressive taxes like VAT, the TV Licence and Sin taxes. To say the poor aren't paying taxes is simply facile.

Not one person thought to themselves, "Hang on, won't this upset our core support? Is demonising people that socialists should care about a good strategy long-term? Shouldn't we care about these people? What if Nye Bevan rose from the grave? What would he say?". Apparently no-one said any of these things.

Not one person even thought to check to see where this policy is on the spectrum of UK politics - in fact, this policy is FAR to the right of the Tory position on benefits. To find another party espousing the view that taxes are a vital precondition to benefits, you have to go all the way to the fringes of American politics - indeed to the Michelle Bachmann campaign in the US primaries. That's right. Labour is now to the right of mainstream American Republicans on the benefits issue, which is astounding.

Of course, none of this is to say that long term joblessness (and worse, multi-generational joblessness) isn't a serious problem. If there is work, people should do it. But at the same time, mechanisms to create that impetus to work need to actually take into account people's circumstances - and people who need the safety net of the benefit system need to be protected from stupid, overbearing, ill-thought out, headline-grabbing idiots like Liam Byrne.

Almost worse, even if you see this betrayal, this calculated attempt to win over Daily Mail readers, to leave behind those "evil" scroungers who pay no tax as the ends justifying the means - it's nothing but Fool's Gold. Labour is simply not going to win in a political fight on the ground of "who will be tougher on benefit claimants?" To quote Owen Jones - "it will fuel a prejudice that the Tories are most trusted to satisfy".

I know a huge amount of very smart, very committed socialists who would be brave enough to say all of these things to Ed Miliband's face. To speak the truth to power. Unfortunately, it seems no-one in the inner circle is willing to do so - or if they are, no-one at the top is willing to listen.

Miliband & Byrne sacrificing the founding principles of their supposed socialist party, attacking their own activists and supporters in order to win a short term poll bounce - which they won't even get. Remind me, why are they in charge again?

 

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It's fair to say, plenty of people have doubts about the current Labour frontbench. Nothing has convinced me more that they are incompetent than the leaking of a speech that Liam 'There's no money lef...
It's fair to say, plenty of people have doubts about the current Labour frontbench. Nothing has convinced me more that they are incompetent than the leaking of a speech that Liam 'There's no money lef...
 
 
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04:26 AM on 01/05/2012
I love this. The bankers are quite literally running off with the countries money then gambling on the debts we incurred helping out their murky sector and the best labour can come up with is this!
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05:04 PM on 01/04/2012
Liam 'There's no money left' Byrne clearly Isn't up to the job and needs sacking immediatly. He has already done more harm to the Labour party then everybody in the Condem government put together with his ill thought through pathetic stab at humour "There's no money left' note. That anybody else in the world with a brain could see would be gleefully seized upon and taken out of context by the Condems and used as a "signed confession of failure" instead of beeing seen in context as a pathetic failed attempt at a joke by the obvious dimwhitted brain of Liam Byrne.
11:53 AM on 01/07/2012
For once a politician told the truth, there was no money left.
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02:09 PM on 01/08/2012
Mr Pedro
I wish I shared you faith in politicians, If there is no money left where do they always manage to cunjure it from for the dogma driven causes they believe in? Olympics, Wars, Royal Parades...any flag waving event never needs to tighten it's belt? Meanwhile the rest of the country can go to hell ,these fake events don't take the peoples minds of the peoples problems they just provide another excuse to take the elie's minds off the people's problems still further and use the publics money to pay for it as usual.

We are not in it together as Cameron says, instead the king is in the All Together as the public have wised up to bis bullshot.
12:45 PM on 01/04/2012
Britain wasn't broken BEFORE Cameron got hold of the country, but it is now and is set to get much worse, with the impending privatisation of our NHS (which will suffer the same fate as the Tory privatised railways).
David Cameron is deliberately dividing society and then pitting social groups against each other, we see him doing it between the private sector and public sector, able bodied people vs disabled people, the employed pitted against the unemployed, the haves against the have nots. David Cameron, George Osborne and Nick Clegg is forcing nurses, doctors, midwives, teachers, police, dinner ladies, cleaners etc to pay for the sins of the bankers and not just any old bankers, the bankers and hedge funds, the venture capitalists, the "Goldman Sachs" types who all donate £millions to the Tory party.
And let's not forget while it is absolutely right to attack benefit "fraud" that runs at just over £1.2bn,, that this figure ALSO covers overpayment of benefit in errors and that is NOT fraud. However, compare this to the fraudulent practice of tax avoidance, practised by bankers and other Tory minded people which runs into something like £22bn, perhaps the millionaires David Cameron, George Osborne and the useful idiot Nick Clegg may like to put that house in order BEFORE attacking vulnerable people who a have every right to claim.

Let's save the attacks for the real villains here and that is David Cameron and his Conservative party, it is not the Labour party.
11:56 AM on 01/07/2012
How did Mandleson get his money? remember he had to borrow £350.000 from Geofrey Robinson to help pay for a house. Now he lives in a 8 million pound pile of bricks????
12:29 AM on 01/08/2012
Are you on another planet, it is the Labour party that has run this country into debt for the last decade. I'm not saying the Conservatives would have put us in a better position they have not been in power whilst all this reckless lending and banking has been taking place... Labour has! Totally agree with the fact Cameron is dividing public and private sector for government gain and it is unfortunate that lots do not see this. I do not think a Lobour return would benefit anyone as they would continue to borrow and spend as if there is no problem when there clearly is.
12:42 PM on 01/04/2012
This from someone who describes himself as "Multiculturalist Tory"?
Attacking the "evils" of fraudulently claiming benefits, is NOT the same as attacking those who have genuine claims and well you know it Mr Foxton.
Perhaps some of the people that have added comment here need to also make that distinction? This piece is nothing more than a thinly veiled attack on the leadership of Ed Miliband, which has been under sustained attack since just before Christmas when it finally dawned on Cameron that he is NOT to win the next election either.
This piece tries to coerce the reader into forgetting that it is the Tories led by Cameron, Osborne and Clegg who are mercilessly attacking benefit claimants, while lowering living standards,allowing the escalation of the TORY privatised utility bills and the Tory privatised railways leading to soaring rail fares by removing the Labour imposed rail-fare cap allowing rail fares to rise disproportionately against people's wages (risen 11%). Removing workers rights and human rights, giving bullying employers the right to bully their employees into submission without complaint. It is trying to divert the attention away from what the Conservatives are doing by attempting to paint he Labour leader and the Labour party in bad light, it is all just a political game to Tories, while real genuine people suffer the consequences of Cameron's divided society which he is deliberately breaking up more and more each day in order to get his Draconian austerity measures accepted.
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Willard Foxton
04:00 PM on 01/04/2012
I don't think Byrne is attacking Benefit Fraud - I think he's attacking people who are legitimately claiming over a long period. Hence all the references to "the evil of idleness".

And yes, I am a Tory - I do actually say so, as you rightly pick up. However, I'm of the opinion that this policy is divisive and wrong. If the Tories proposed it, I'd oppose it then as well. The reason I think it's astounding is because it's such a betrayal of what all my socialist friends have been campaigning against.
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Dombeyandson
03:12 PM on 01/08/2012
And encouraging the 6,7,8 figure salary "earners" plus bonuses and share options to walk away laughing all the form the bank, which we now own with all its debts. They of course have been awarded for their failure instead of attoning for the greed. Not to mention the money grabing, extrotinate expenses claimng MPs who are making false claimd knowingly hoping their self regulating committed accepts them - does the Inland Revenue?
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Paul Houston
British and a London resident
08:26 PM on 01/03/2012
We already have a system of benefits based on how much tax you are paid, it is called National Insurance. Jobseekers allowance is only paid if you have paid enough contributions and that only lasts six months. State pension is dependant on the amount of National Insurance contributions you have made.
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Willard Foxton
03:52 PM on 01/04/2012
Increasingly, NI and general taxation have been merged; there's no separate pool. JSA is available to all, regardless of contributions paid, and after 6 months you are put on a series of "reviews" - but less than 10 people were denied JSA last year.

State pension *is* NI dependent, but even within that there are options to pay for "missing NI years" into your pension at a minuscule rate. Most people who have not worked will pay for the missing years (most commonly women who have taken 10-15 years off to raise children) as they approach retirement.

The current system is designed to be quite hard to fall through.
05:34 PM on 01/03/2012
National Service, Problem Solved!!
10:01 PM on 01/03/2012
I hit the wrong button the comments ridiculous. Industry. Construction. Not cannon fodder on account of other countries resources.
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Paul Wagland
Resistance is fertile
10:32 PM on 01/03/2012
What if the national service wasn't military? It could be mowing grass in the park, picking up litter, painting schools... whatever. Would that be workable I wonder?

This is rather an aside to the point the article is making though.
04:36 PM on 01/03/2012
everytime i see an article in this vein i feel so ashamed of being unemployed due to really bad health for the first time since i was 13. The young are abused by the system, employers and by the MP's elected by them as much as anyone else.
people do not choose to be on benefits... they end up there, its not the life of luxury or ease, its heart breaking, depressing and financially terrifying. then add to this, the shame felt by actually having to apply for benefits... i was made redundant due to health and job cuts by local council, cuts brought about by the budget cuts demanded by this and previous governments. stop pointing the finger at the people that are victims of current policy and take a really good look at our society and the haves and the have nots!!!!
12:36 PM on 01/04/2012
Hello Teresa, thanks for your post. If we all were to dwell on our misfortunes in life we would not be here now. 10 Years ago I had a Multi Million Pound Company until a large Blue Chip Company went but on me for 750K. I lost my House, Wife, Car, Yacht in fact everything I had worked for 25 years gone down the pan. I had depression for 2 Years until one day I dusted myself down and decided to learn a New Trade after 1 year of training I was a passenger in a car, I was sat in it at the road side while my friend called for a Newspaper. I was on the phone when BANG, didn't wake up until I was in Hospital, a 40 Tone truck crashed into the car, My injuries were so bad that I can no longer teach Karate or go for long walks, you may think that this is the end of the road for me??? No I have a New Business employ 15 people and 4 Office Staff, I am back on the way up, Nothing gets me down apart from Weak Government, Criminals, Immigration and Benefit Cheats. Mind over Matter is the Cure.
12:55 PM on 01/04/2012
Nothing gets you down you say, then you go on to give a list which includes "benefit cheats and Immigrants" etc. A contradiction in terms. I'll admit that Tory governments that attack vulnerable people and try to divide society, by causing unnecessary unemployment and then accusing the unemployed of not having a job get me down. People like you get me down who expect others to be able to do as you have done, not everyone is the same and we do not need a list of what you purport to be your achievements either and haven't you heard that "self praise is no recommendation?"
02:59 PM on 01/04/2012
or maybe more than a few months! i discussed this today with professional personnel and they think its because i feel its directed at me, when actually its at the people that are abusing the system. Apparently its my own guilt about not being well enough 'currently', tell you what british4ever, you give me a job, i am highly skilled and experienced, just very sick so im not going to be able to attend everyday, and i will show you that i am actually a positive person, my son had cancer, i worked, another was in car crash broke his back in two places, even though i spent every hour i could teaching him to walk again i never missed work, at 36 i graduated from university, became a qualified teacher and went on to work with people that had barriers to accessing employment, education and training. I was then abandoned by a useless man and brought up my children alone, working the entire time. I have been out of work since April 2011. Nothing gets me down apart from people that point fingers and blame the less fortunate for their circumstances. I do take on board that drive and determination gets you through, i am one of those people too, however, just now, i need to get well and the stress of finger pointing does not help!
03:47 PM on 01/03/2012
It's an attack on the poor by people who just don't care at all for anybody but their ownselves
New Labour & the Tory ' Lib Dems have more or less the same policies
Privatise everything !!
Robin Hood in reverse
Without the support of the media this sustained attack on the poor wouldn't be affective
After all the scandals involving MP's expenses ; the handouts to banks ! the phone tapping
It sickens me that these failed politicians & media can attack the poor , the vulnerable , the elderly , the disabled in such an abusive manner
It's disgusting actually
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Thismortalcoil
Science is the poetry of reality
03:23 PM on 01/03/2012
This policy a sure fire way to make the most vulnerable people in our society feel even more marginalised and demonised.

Yes the benefit system needs a complete overhaul, but it needs to be done without prejudice.
03:23 PM on 01/03/2012
Unemployed school leavers can stay with their parents.

Why should they walk out of school & be given cash in their pocket, which they have done nothing to earn?
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Willard Foxton
03:55 PM on 01/04/2012
Because we make a value judgement that they shouldn't be out on the streets. If you visit a country in the third world, or a first world country with a poor safety net, then you see legions of young people on the streets, begging or committing crime as they have no other option.

Personally, I'd rather pay for the welfare state as a safety net - it's more humane, and probably cheaper in the long run.
07:14 PM on 01/04/2012
I'm afraid that I regard the welfare dependence endemic in substantial parts of the UK as inhumane, and an evil as great as those you cite, though perhaps not so obvious. I accept, however, that that is, as you say, a value judgement.
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Michaelxx
02:45 PM on 01/03/2012
benefit scroungers....mps fiddling expenses...who gets the most...and who actually gets charged with an offence
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Paul Wagland
Resistance is fertile
02:16 PM on 01/03/2012
It's certainly wrong to make tax input a precondition of benefits. Unemployed school-leavers are the obvious example, as they haven't had the opportunity to contribute. There are others too who would be wrongly disadvantaged - the sick and disabled, young mothers, and low-earners in general. I agree this idea looks very weak was it stands - perhaps Mr Byrne should have spent a little longer on his proposal.

All that aside our current situation is far from ideal, with the benefits system often discouraging people from returning to work. The system is so old and cumbersome that it needs a complete redesign. My preference would be for a citizen's income such as the Green Party proposes, although I'm no economist and not qualified to insist it would work!
12:06 PM on 01/04/2012
The Green Party would be an end to Civilization. No Cars, Lorries, Motorcycles, Buses, Boats and Planes. We would all be peddling around on Pushbikes. Plenty of Tree Hugging lol.
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Paul Wagland
Resistance is fertile
12:26 PM on 01/04/2012
Do you actually think the Green Party wants to ban motorised transport? I have to hope you have a better grip on reality than your post suggests.
12:04 PM on 01/07/2012
Yes at last someone has got it
01:38 PM on 01/03/2012
I think either you or the Mail are being a little bit mischevious Willard, as it seems in the quotes from Liam Byrne presented that he is attacking the so-called culture of benefits dependency as 'evil' rather than the long-term unemployed themselves (a not unimportant distinction, as the intent is to make a reference to Beveridge's 'evil of idleness'), I do agree with the broad thrust of your piece but am not entirely sure why you are surprised. Labour ceased to be a socialist party decades ago: their roots are more as a party of the aspirational working classes (as distinct from the long-term poor and destitute) - and have never been particularly keen on encouraging long-term common cause between employed and unemployed (the last attempt to properly involve the unemployed in large, non-sectional trade unions died in the 1920s).

It's a pity that Labour strategists don't see any other course of action than attempting to grab back some of the Tories' clothes, or that this kind of divisive rhetoric is considered 'centre-ground' in UK politics. All politicians share responsibility for having demonised the poor over decades, however.
01:27 PM on 01/03/2012
I agree though; they won't win many votes on this as it currently stands.
01:24 PM on 01/03/2012
One would assume that Labour's proposed plan would include some mechanism recognising the young's lack if past payment of taxes, but that will presumably add further levels of complexity to our already arcane tax and benefit system (I would be keen on a massive simplification whereby we ceased paying to administer a system whereby the state subsidies low paying employers). When thus sort of re-connection of input to benefits was proposed last year I assumed they were proposing a Scandinavian style unemployment benefit as % of previous salary system. It seems not.