The Art Of Masturbation (With Alix Fox)

Journalist and sex educator Alix Fox joins Brogan Driscoll and Rachel Moss to chat sex toys, stimulation and how you can have a relaxed, enjoyable time of self-love.

Transcript

Brogan Driscoll:

Hello and welcome to Huff Post’s brand new weekly podcast Am I Making You Uncomfortable presented by me, Brogan Driscoll.

Rachel Moss:

And me, Rachel Moss. This podcast is a frank, honest conversation about women’s bodies, health, and private lives.

Brogan Driscoll:

We cover under reported issues and tackle topics you’re too squeamish to talk to your mates about.

Rachel Moss:

Today, we’re talking about female masturbation and later we’ll be joined by Alix Fox who’s a sex educator. And if you don’t know her, she talks almost exclusively in innuendos.

Brogan Driscoll:

It’s quite weird to talk about masturbation because it’s not something we normally talk about.

Rachel Moss:

Yes.

Brogan Driscoll:

It’s quite a private thing. And like many things on this podcast, it’s not something I really talk to anyone about. But here we are.

Rachel Moss:

I feel of all of our podcast topics this is possibly the one that makes me cringe the hardest. I don’t know what it is about it but I am really nervous of my mum or my nan listening to this.

Rachel Moss:

Which is so stupid because masturbation doesn’t hurt anyone. Why am I so embarrassed about it?

Brogan Driscoll:

It’s something that people only, I’m only kind of seeing now as I’m in my early thirties, positive kind of messaging around masturbation and female pleasure. And HuffPost ran a series earlier this year called How to Get Off, which was all about female pleasure and it was really positive and had lots of different stories about women.

Rachel Moss:

I loved watching the series.



Brogan Driscoll:

The first time that they really.

Rachel Moss:

For anyone who missed it, it was just a series of articles that were- that were all basically around pleasure but with a big focus on female pleasure. And one of the pieces that I wrote for it was interviewing, I’m gonna say maybe like six or seven women about their eureka moments when it comes to female pleasure. And it was so surprising. Like their stories were so different. They went right from someone who was ‘I had great sex for the first time when I was 18 and now I’ve never had it since and I’m in my thirties’. And then at the other end of the scale, someone who’s never orgasmed until after they’d had a divorce and quite late in life. And the running theme through all of them was just that we’ve never spoken about it before, which was slightly mad.

Brogan Driscoll:

I mean, I’ve never, I don’t really speak about female pleasure, my own pleasure with mates or publicly or anything. It’s obviously something that I talk with sexual partners about, but not something that I’m kind of tooting my horn if that’s not a weird innuendo.

Rachel Moss:

I feel like there is still an internalized shame about it, like you say it probably comes from school days when sex ed was all about not getting pregnant - it was never about enjoying sex. And so it almost seems like you’re being demanding if you say that you want to enjoy sex aswell, which is of course is just ridiculous. I remember when I was at university, did you ever play Never Have I Ever, the drinking game?

Brogan Driscoll:

Obviously. Yes.

Rachel Moss:

I remember there was a time where we were all sat round and someone said never have I ever masturbated and then when a couple of the girls in the circle drank as in ‘yes, I have,’ they were absolutely ripped to shreds. And it just goes to show that a bunch of 18-year-olds are awfully immature. But that messaging we’d obviously all internalized from that age was that it was okay for boys to wank and it wasn’t okay for girls to.

Brogan Driscoll:

It’s crazy that the kind of shame around female pleasure even nowadays means that women just don’t really have access to it. There are women who are unable to kind of engage completely because it’s just been so shameful. But you’re a massive fan of Sex Education?

Rachel Moss:

I am. That is one of the first shows where I have seen masturbation portrayed I think. And also, female masturbation I should say, and also portrayed in a way that it’s not about the pleasure for viewers. It’s not sexy, it’s just put forward as this is a thing that this person is doing. And I think what is super interesting about that show as well is that it’s got the same intimacy director as Normal People, which I’m also obsessed with. That’s on BBC and that hasn’t got any masturbation in it, but it’s got a hell of a lot of sex in it.

Brogan Driscoll:

It’s got so much sex in it.

Rachel Moss:

So so much sex, my boyfriend has dubbed it Naked People. He says ‘shall we watch another episode of Naked People?’

Brogan Driscoll:

Today we’re joined by Alix Fox, a multi-award winning broadcaster, journalist and sex educator who most recently worked as script consultant for the Netflix show ‘Sex Education’. Alix is passionate about getting us to talk more openly about sex and strives to achieve her trademark decent indecency in everything she takes on. Thanks for joining us on the podcast today to talk about masturbation.

Alix Fox:

Hello! I always feel a little bit mortified when people say “multi-award winning.” I mean one of those was the Duke of Edinburgh. A long long time ago, and now for physical pursuits but of a different type.

Brogan Driscoll:

Lovely. Well as you know today we’re talking all about masturbation. So we wanted to kick things off with the big question at the centre of this whole thing. Why is it such a taboo to talk about masturbation particularly for women?

Alix Fox:

For a start I think some people feel uncomfy about masturbation because they’ve been brought up in a community environment or in a family or in a religious context that told them that to touch yourself, to pleasure yourself was wrong or bad or dirty. A lot of people never spoke about masturbation at school. It wasn’t part of their sex eduction curriculum. I mean what was sex ed like for your guys at school?

Brogan Driscoll:

I had one lesson, an hour I think.

Alix Fox:

Absolutely awful. I mean, we’d spoken about it a few times and it’s like the teacher was awkward and therefore the kids are awkward. And you grow up with this idea that sex is awkward, which is just not good for anyone. And then those kids become the teachers who are awkward. Like a never ending cycle.

Brogan Driscoll:

Ours was just completely focused on the reproductive organs and how to make a baby rather than any kind of pleasure or anything like that.

Alix Fox:

Well speaking of organs, mine took place in a music room. We were surrounded by clarinets and cellos and flutes and then showed some really graphic slides of STIs in the most advanced untreated stages. And the message given to us particularly as girls was all about protect yourself from diseases and protect yourself from unwanted or unplanned pregnancy. But when it came to self-pleasure, the teacher’s mouths were as closed as our legs were supposed to be.

And I definitely think for a lot of people it starts at a younger age as well. It’s really natural for children even when they’re toddlers to realize that touching their private parts can feel good. And their parents or caregivers quite rightly tell them not to do that in public spaces. But sometimes that lesson is delivered in a way where the message is that it is: naughty, rude, or don’t ever do that, you’ll be in trouble if you do that, that’s foul.

And parents understandably because they don’t have the foundation to teach themselves. You know, they haven’t been given that information in their own childhood or life journey they don’t follow that up with it’s all right to do that in private at the right moment. There’s nothing wrong with the pleasure, it’s all about context.

Other reasons I think that we get upset about masturbation uh are that we just don’t talk about it. Um a lot of us worry about whether we should be doing it or shouldn’t be doing it. And we don’t know what the normal is. So we can really scrutinize our own behaviors or lack thereof.

Brogan Driscoll:

I think what frustrates me is how different it is for guys. So, growing up in pop culture it was kind of a joke almost or just a given that men masturbated and it was um kind of something that was widely spoken about. But never the same for girls, or now growing up, never the same for women. Why do you think that’s different?

Alix Fox:

Well first of all I am going to say that I think that the idea of male masturbation being a joke has actually done some damage to a lot of guys. Ostensibly we’re all talking about men wanking or teasing the weasel or whatever you want to call it. What’s your favorite word for masturbation by the way?

Rachel Moss:

I just call it wanking.

Brogan Driscoll:

I don’t know if I have a favorite. I’ve never really ranked them to be honest.

Brogan Driscoll:

What’s yours Alix?

Alix Fox:

I’m a big fan of David Bowie, so my favorite is letting Toby get lost amongst the labyrinth.

Rachel Moss:

That’s a mouthful.

Alix Fox:

That’s specifically for using sex toys, so sex toys are Toby now in my household.

Because we joke about male masturbation I think that kind of locker room, bro culture has probably made a lot of men feel fear about speaking up if they have questions about masturbation. So to think that because we joke about male masturbation that it isn’t an issue is a fallacy. Certainly though when I was younger, female masturbation wasn’t talked about at all. I don’t even remember jokes. It just wasn’t, what we were doing in our bedrooms or wasn’t on the table in any context.

I think that conversation is starting to change but still a lot of the images and a lot of the messages that people get about female masturbation come from porn where it’s something that’s performed often for male pleasure and as a result, it’s all play and display. There are these legs wide open, it’s like an all you can see, all you can eat buffet of genitalia, the camera is right up there inside and women are often pictured frantically rubbing their coochies as though they’re starting a fire. In real life we know that women masturbate in all sorts of body positions, it’s not always that vigorous and almost violent. With Sex Education we showed Aimee’s character masturbating uh and she actually reached orgasm while she’s lying down on her front, a position you don’t often see in porn because it obscures the visual.

And I know that the creator Laurie Nunn and Aimee Lou Wood who plays Aimee in the show got lots and lots of contact from fans saying ‘oh my god that is the first time I’ve ever seen the way I cum depicted on the screen, I feel really normal, I feel validated’. Aimee’s character then goes on to announce the next day at school that she had a wonderful time and then ate six crumpets. So, I’ve heard the term crumpeting to mean whilst lying on your front now.

Brogan Driscoll:

Oh I love that. That’s brilliant. I absolutely loved the last series of Sex Education. And the thing you mention with Aimee was great, but I also loved that there were scenes with Ola as well where she was exploring herself and her partner. And also Otis I mean he had a huge masturbation storyline this time, he was just doing it all the time. Once he had- once he’d found the love for it he was worried that he couldn’t stop. That whole idea, where did that come from? And how was filming that with those young actors?

Alix Fox:

The way that my job works is that I get sent certain parts of the script to review. So sometimes Laurie or the rest of the production team might say okay we know we’ve got a chlamydia storyline here, spoiler alert, can you help us with the logistics of this? So basically I am the architect of the chlamydia outbreak.

I was responsible for the chlamydia in the eye, it was me guys, I’ll check whether it’s factually possible. Sometimes my job isn’t to make sure something is medically okay it’s to ascertain whether that’s something that young people actually know or whether that’s something they’d commonly get wrong or whether there’s a piece of terminology that’s going around or a myth that everyone believes. So, whilst I on one hand I have to check that a lot of what Otis and Jean are saying is correct, on the other hand, it’s my job to reflect common misconceptions. I’ll try and suggest some jokes, put forward ideas of things I’ve heard from the young people I interact with that might have relevance to them, that they’d want to see portrayed in the show. But I only see certain bits of the script. So when I’m watching the show along with everybody else I’m still waiting to find out what happens in certain bits of the story.

Brogan Driscoll:

That’s good. So you still get to enjoy it. You only get little snippets that you’re involved in

Alix Fox:

Exactly. I get sent it a little bit earlier but I almost always binge watch it so it’s just two days of me yelping

Rachel Moss:

It is hilarious. One of the things that obviously Otis goes through is worrying that he’s masturbating too frequently. That’s an idea I think that some of us may have heard in school. Not from teachers, just rumors. Is there any truth in that, can you masturbate too frequently?

Alix Fox:

Can you crank that wank? Does it become problematic? If you feel that you are touching yourself compulsively to a point where it’s getting in the way of other things in life. So, you’re not showing up for work for example or you’re late for things a heck of a lot or it’s affecting other relationships you might be acting in a way that’s quite surreptitious. Maybe your porn consumption is something that you feel like you got to take, you got to hide from other people. There’s all sorts of scenarios where masturbation and the things it’s adjacent to like using porn, can uh affect an individual’s behavior in a way that they and others might find difficult - I think that’s the time to go and see a therapist. And often it’s connected to- to other aspects in somebody’s life like depression or anxiety or it has to be treated on an individual basis. I get asked a lot like what’s a normal amount to masturbate and it really varies from person to person. I wouldn’t worry about how much you are going for a row in the pink taco boat or whatever unless you think that it is getting in the way or your life. On a more physiological basis um you can get quite sore if you are touching yourself helluva a lot, so if you feel like things are getting a bit tender in your tender places, then maybe give it a rest. Lots of young women in particular, vulva owners, ask me if you can get addicted to a vibrator or if you can cause yourself damage by using a vibrator too much or a sex toy too much. It would be extremely difficult to create lasting nerve damage by buzzing the fuzz, so don’t worry too much about that. Having said that, if you are repeatedly relying on particularly powerful sex toys, you know the ones that you plug into the mains and your lights dip and your energy bill goes through the roof, like the ones I prefer, your body can start to get used to a very intense form of stimulation. That does not mean that you and your poon are ruined forevermore. It just means that you need to maybe wind that down, take a step back for a few weeks and learn to rely on your digit rather than your widgets and your gadgets for a bit.

Brogan Driscoll:

And of course once you do develop a healthy relationship with masturbation it can be great. Why does it feel so good for men or women? What is going on in your body, in your brain, when you orgasm?

Alix Fox:

Well for a start, you turn into a chemical factory when you’re masturbating and when you’re experiencing sexual pleasure or orgasm. Oxytocin and dopamine are chemicals that make you feel blissed out and or happy and hopeful. And often is quite connected to the person you’re experiencing pleasure with, I think that’s partly why masturbation can be so good for us. If we feel good with ourselves we’re more likely to feel good about ourselves. If you can demonstrate to yourself that your body has the capacity to make you feel effing great effing yourself then it’s easier to love yourself isn’t it? It’s easier, or at least easier to accept, the potential of your body to be a good thing. You also produce a substance called prolactin, which has all sorts of roles in the body but it has been linked to deeper, more rejuvenating sleep, you produce endorphins which are basically like the body’s natural painkillers so a lot of people who are anxious or depressed can find that masturbating can bring them some relief. I say that with the caveat that if you are experiencing depression, wanking all the time is not the way to fix that, if you’re having a little bit of a blue day then playing with your pink bits might give you some relief. But if it’s more of a sustained issue please go and see a specialist, check with a GP, go and chat with somebody.

It’s not just about chemicals and your brain though, there are a lot of other parts, the moans for example, a lot of women because of what they see in porn think that they have to do little itty bitty squeaky breaths like gerbil on a jog. That causes your chest to tighten up, if that’s the sound that you naturally make during pleasure then you go with your mousey self, but actually breathing more deeply and maybe even making even more of a guttural sound or seeing what it feels like in your whole body to change up your breathing, for some women that can be the difference between getting to O town or stopping just short of it. One theory of why breathing deeply can actually help you to experience pleasure or have an orgasm is that there is a big old nerve called the vagus nerve, it is quite vague in many ways, but it does a lot of jobs. It extends from the kind of the neck, the back of the skull and it has fronds that splay out through the face, going all the way down right into your pelvic region. And you know what nerves look like, they look like a kind of family tree, it’s got cousins and daughters and sons all around your kind of your internal genitals basically. Breathing deeply stimulates that vagus nerve and can essentially, some people posit, wake up your bits.

Rachel Moss:

Wow. That’s really interesting. Very interesting.

Alix Fox:

Your pelvic floor muscles as well, we’re often taught that we should exercise those by doing Kegels which is when you basically hold your muscles as though you were trying to keep in wee. But not only can doing that during the day when you’re not having sex or masturbating help with things like incontinence and with stronger orgasms, actually clenching and unclenching your pc muscles, your pelvic floor muscles, whilst you’re masturbating or having sex can help provoke an orgasm too. And would you believe, some people find that curling and uncurling their toes gets them over the edge.

Rachel Moss:

Wow, all the tips today. Things I never knew.

Alix Fox:

You never knew you had this many erogenous zones. The crystal maze, the industrial zone, that’s where I keep all my sex toys, the erogenous zone, that’s my whole body.

Brogan Driscoll:

We spoke earlier about the taboo around masturbation and how growing up not a lot of people spoke about female masturbation. Who do you speak about it with and where would you recommend any listeners to do so? Like friends or family perhaps? Maybe not family actually that’d be a bit weird but.

Alix Fox:

Well why not? I actually do speak with my family about masturbation. Not with my brother, my brother thinks I work in fashion. And my bro is, I don’t think he’s ashamed of what I do, I think that very naturally he doesn’t want to hear this information from his sister. Fair play. But I do talk to my sis and my mum about these things. I think people in my life sometimes would rather that I did shut my trap and stop talking about twats, but hey I think there are lots of good reasons to talk more about masturbation, once you open and start sharing, you can hear some really hot tips. But also if there’s been something on your mind that you’re worried about for example, have you heard of vaginismus? This is a condition that causes the muscles in the vaginal canal to tighten up to the point where penetration, whether that’s with a penis or a finger or a moon cup or tampon, becomes painful to the point of almost impossibility. Lots of women who I’ve spoken to about that didn’t know where to turn. And they found that having conversations about masturbation with their friends gave them the confidence to say that they were going through this. And because there are often psychological links with vaginismus, it’s often although not always connected to something in your brain telling you to clamp up in order to protect you. Whether that’s because you’ve had a bad experience in the past or an assault, that’s certainly not always the case, or whether something has frightened you or sometimes it can just be a brain that is a bit like the smoke alarm that goes off in their house when you’ve only burnt the toast. And it’s not a major alarm system, some people’s bodies are like that. It’s like now I’m going to tense up, even though there isn’t an emergency, but I’m gonna treat it like it is one. Through talking about masturbation with their friends they were able to feel a little bit more at ease about the entire subject and that actually contributed towards their healing because it helped them relax about it. And almost everybody has a masturbation story, not everyone, there are also some asexual people who don’t feel the urge to masturbate or if they do masturbate it’s because it relieves them if they’re a guy or it helps them sleep but it’s not inherently sexual for them. Although that’s not true for all asexual people, but broadly speaking masturbation is a topic where everyone’s got a tale.

Brogan Driscoll:

We got some listeners to send us some of their experiences in masturbation.

Listener:

The first few times I tried to masturbate it didn’t work at all so I quickly concluded it just wasn’t for me and I stopped trying for years. But that just wasn’t true. I simply had no clue about my clit and about how it works. And I’m afraid this is often the case for too many women, I find it striking how little we know about female pleasure and about ourselves. I wonder why it has to be such a taboo.

Rachel Moss:

That listener there really touched on the idea I think could possibly be quite common for a lot of women. You perhaps try masturbating, it doesn’t work because you’re not taught about it and then you kind of give up for a while and lose hope for it. So have you got any advice for any listeners on essentially how to do it? How do you get yourself off?

Alix Fox:

For a start, I think it’s really important to recognize even if you are a regular masturbator, the things that get you off in the past might not work for you now. Which is why it’s important to switch up the ways that you masturbate and try different things throughout your lifetime. And also not to be worried that if masturbation wasn’t something that you enjoyed in the past if you feel so inclined, giving it a go in the future might result in a more, a happier outcome. There are all sorts of things that can affect your sexual response. Things like the menopause, pregnancy, going through puberty, medications we’re taking, ironically including contraception, can affect your libido and also how your body responds to certain touches and techniques. Antidepressants in particular, SSRIs (Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor) can make it harder to orgasm or experience pleasure. A good place to start is with a few activities I can suggest, one is called sensate focus. Rather than just aiming for your genitals as though your hand or your sex toy is a dart and your bits are the bullseye, think about your entire body. There’re a few resources that can help you explore sensate focus, there’s a really good app called Ferly for example, it teaches you to focus on different parts of your body whether that’s the back of your neck or the palm of your hands or the inside of your wrists. And slowly, slowly reawaken your whole body but also change your mind into an outlook where you believe that you can feel good inside of yourself.

Brogan Driscoll:

The second clip we’ve got is from a listener explaining how masturbation can be incredibly taboo in certain cultures. So she’s South Asian and she speaks about her experience.

Listener:

I’m from the South Asian culture and in South Asian culture female pleasure isn’t even a concept. We’re kind of brought up to think of sex as something that’s for men and not for women, so the whole idea of female masturbation is even more taboo. I remember as a teenager talking to my friends and someone said ‘I would never do something like that’. So that’s how not talked about it is within South Asian culture. I don’t know if that makes sense, but it’s that much of a taboo that we don’t even acknowledge it.

Brogan Driscoll:

As a sex educator is that something that surprises you to hear or do you regularly hear that culture plays a huge part in this topic.

Alix Fox:

I regularly hear it and I regularly call out for greater diversity within the sex education community, I’m so grateful that we are starting to make progress in that area. I am under no illusions that as a 37-year-old white woman with neon hair from a non-faith background, no matter how much research I do, my lived experience is going to be very different from a lot of the people I speak to. And some of them just won’t relate to me, they won’t see me as the right person to teach them and it’s really important that we have people from diverse backgrounds and sexualities talking about their own experiences and being plugged into different cultures to ensure that everybody is having conversations in a way that they feel comfortable with and are seen by. I’m really happy to be able to recommend some specific uh South Asian resources. There’s a brilliant woman called Sangeeta Pillai who runs a podcast called the Masala Podcast, she started a movement called Soul Sutras. She also speaks very interestingly about how the Kama Sutra is an Indian text originally, although it’s been subsumed by Western culture in many many ways, and she has some very interesting observations about a culture that arguably was quite sexual and was about pleasure in lots of ways, about how and why that has changed to become what it is now for a lot of people. So, she’s one good person to check out. The Village Auntie, real name Angelica Lindsey-Ali, is a Muslim woman I think Minnesota based, she has a really brilliant Instagram account where she talks about sex education from a faith background. And shout out to Amalia.com, they talk in very progressive ways again about what it’s like to be a sexual person who is Muslim and brown. And also please do check out the work of Dr. Annabel Sowemimo and all of the rest of the team at Decolonizing Contraception who speak to other people of color with knowledge of their backgrounds and their influences much more so than my own; I have learned a lot from them and continue to do so.

Brogan Driscoll:

The third listener we’ve got a clip from here is talking about her experience of sex education in school.

Listener:

The first time I masturbated I think was quite late in life, maybe 16, 17. I went to an all girls boarding school where they did not have a lot of private space, it was kind of frowned upon. I think there’s a huge stigma around female masturbation, I think part of it is there’s an embarrassment still about talking about it. And I think that comes from quite a young age of just not having an open culture around female pleasure. It is not being discussed in a way that male pleasure is. I also think that culture is perpetuated by men who feel a bit uncomfortable about female masturbation still, like they feel pushed out or that it’s kind of competitive and it’s at the compromise of something that they could do.

Alix Fox:

I think a lot of guys feel that if women can make themselves feel great they’ll somehow be out of a job and that idea extends into this massive fear of sex toys, like seeing vibrators as enemies of the penis come to rob you and your shaft of all of your powers. In relationships that are in lots of ways very healthy people can want to talk to each other honestly and openly about masturbation and about what brings them pleasure - but there’s still a lot holding them back. For a start, if you’ve been with somebody for a long long time and what they’ve been doing in bed hasn’t been tickling your pickle, but you’ve been pretending that it has, then speaking to them all of a sudden with radical utopian honesty about that can be incredibly intimidating. You worry that you’re gonna squish their ego like a rotten Halloween pumpkin in November, you might worry that that person will then doubt other aspects of the relationship and think what else have you been lying to me about or fibbing about. So correcting things can be very intimidating, I’ve spoken to couples whose partner has asked them to masturbate in front of them because they want to learn from the master - the masturbator if you will. But these women have felt that they can’t be honest, we don’t always go as far as we need to with talking and with demonstrating what gets us off. I do acknowledge that if, for a start we need to stop seeing our partner giving us input on their pleasure as a slight to our own prowess in bed, I think a really good motto to bear in mind is ‘I learn by hearing, I’m here to learn and I’m going to be enthusiastic about both’. Don’t take it as a slur if your partner makes requests of how you touch them or wants to show you more about how they touch themselves.

Brogan Driscoll:

That’s great advice. Final question that we ask all of our guests that come on the podcast, what makes you uncomfortable?

Alix Fox:

Do you know what really makes me squirm and feel like I’m gonna turn inside out with embarrassment - pantomimes. And musicals, I can’t, I just can’t stand them. Suddenly everybody knows the words it’s so embarrassing

Rachel Moss:

No, La La Land’s my favorite film ever.

Alix Fox:

Particularly pantomimes for me. I went to go and see one with an ex-boyfriend many years ago. I just could feel myself sinking lower and lower in my chest with absolute like teenage embarrassment. I felt I was wishing myself away. I worry when I go and see pantomimes, see everybody doing everything over the top and how annoying it is. I think oh god, that is me

and how I’m currently perceived as the pantomime and pantos are like looking in a horrible circus mirror for me and they make me really paranoid and deeply uncomfortable.

Rachel Moss:

I love that. Unexpected but brilliant. What a great answer.

Brogan Driscoll:

I did not expect that either. Thank you so much. You can follow Alix on social media @alixfox.

Brogan Driscoll:

That’s it for Am I Making You Uncomfortable this week, I must admit because you won’t be able to see me, that I basically spent that entire interview with my head in my hands and with a really red face.

Rachel Moss:

You were so embarrassed. You did not handle that well.

Rachel Moss:

But well done for persevering.

Brogan Driscoll:

Oh I got through it. That’s the main thing. I’m Brogran Driscoll and you can find @brogan_driscoll.

Rachel Moss:

And I’m Rachel Moss and you can find me @rachelmoss_.

Brogan Driscoll:

This podcast is produced by Crystal Genesis and our sound engineer is Nag Kirinde.

Rachel Moss:

You’ve just listened to Am I Making You Uncomfortable #AIMYU.