In Or Out: David Cameron Clashes With Sky's Faisal Islam Over 'Brexit' War Claim

Prime Minister calls presenter 'incredibly glib' after being asked: 'World War Three, or the global Brexit recession?'
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David Cameron has defended saying ‘Brexit’ would lead to renewed tensions in Europe as he dismissed critics of his remarks as “incredibly glib”.

In the first major TV event of the EU referendum campaign on Sky News, the Prime Minister was confronted by presenter Faisal Islam over the suggestion that leaving the EU would lead to a world war and recession - which prompted the audience to laugh.

In the most tense exchange during a rigorous half-hour of questioning from the journalist, Islam said: "What comes first? World War Three, or the global Brexit recession?"

Ahead of one Cameron speech, a Downing Street briefing that warned of "peace and stability" being undermined by 'Brexit' was interpreted as another war in Europe by Fleet Street.

But Cameron argued the words 'World War Three' "never left my lips", though Islam argued he had referred to "serried rows of white headstones".

The Prime Minister went on, making clear he believes being in the EU makes the UK safer: "Let me tell you exactly, on our continent, in the last century, twice we had an enormous bloodbath, between our nations.

"Can we be so confident that we have solved all of Europe's problems and all of Europe's tensions?"

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A heavyweight contest between David Cameron and Faisal Islam
Sky News

When Islam said the UK is not going to invade France, and France is not going to invade the UK, Cameron responded bluntly: "Again you are being completely glib about this.

"You never forget that 70 years ago these countries were fighting each other."

He concluded: "Find me the bit of the speech that mentions World War Three, you won’t find it, come on."

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Cameron: "On our continent, in the last century, twice we had an enormous bloodbath, between our nation."
Sky News

The pair also squared up over immigration, with Islam challenging Cameron over failing to bring down immigration to the UK to tens of thousands.

Net migration to the UK was 333,000 in the year to December - the second highest ever. A record 184,000 of those came from the EU.

Cameron conceded immigration is a "challenge", a rare concession, but insisted he would not leaved the EU as a result to cause a “self-inflicted wound”.

“It would be madness to do it by trashing our economy and pulling out of the single market,” he said.

During the bouts, Cameron admitted the EU often drove him "crazy" and was "not perfect" but the British were not "quitters" and warned of a "decade of uncertainty" if the UK left the EU.

The full hour-long show is below - and the Cameron v Islam exchanges are well worth watching.

In the "spin room" at Sky HQ where journalists were confronted with Remain and Leave campaign advisers, former Cabinet minister and Tory leader Iain Duncan Smith seized on the laughter from the audience during the 'war' exchange.

"It's showing disrespect to those countries with strong democracies," he said of the idea the EU maintains peace. "The audience laughed and I thought that was a very telling moment."

Southampton student Soraya Bouazzaoui, one of the audience members to give the PM a rough ride, said she had been put off by the “scaremongering” in his pro-EU campaign.

“I’ve seen nothing but scaremongering, I’ve seen no valid facts,” she said before Cameron attempted to make the “positive” case for staying in the EU.

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Student Soraya Bouazzaoui
Sky News

But the hammerblow came when he began to answer her fears over Turkey joining the EU in the future.

Cutting across him, she shouted: “That’s not answering my question. Let me finish now. I’ve seen you interrupt many people before hand. Let me finish. That is not answering the question. I’m an English literature student, I know waffling when I see it. I’m sorry.”

Brexit campaigner Michael Gove gets the same treatment from Sky News on Friday.

Before You Go

The EU and immigration: the facts
The Australian system is designed to increase immigration(01 of08)
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Currently, the points-style system that Leave campaigners have called for is only applied to people immigrating from outside the EU.

But the think tank Migration Watch has said this approach would be "totally unsuitable" for the UK because Australia is trying to increase its population through "growth by immigration" - quite the opposite of the UK.

A press release from Migration Watch in 2014 said: "The Australian context could hardly be more different. Many Australians believe that they have a strategic need to grow and have the space to do so. Both major parties [in the country] favour increased legal migration and their PBS is a means to that end... Furthermore, net immigration to Australia is proportionately three times higher than ours as the Australian Government pursue their strategy of population growth through immigration."
(credit:ASSOCIATED PRESS)
There aren't 1.5 million 'extra' EU migrants(02 of08)
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The Telegraph claimed on 12 May that ONS data showed an "extra" 1.5 million EU migrants came to Britain over last five years without counting among official statistics. Immigration estimates in February suggested around 257,000 EU nationals migrated to the UK in the year to September 2015. Yet 655,000 National Insurance (NI) numbers were issued to EU nationals looking to work or claim benefits in the UK over the same period.

Full Fact says the difference can be explained by the fact that the ONS only counts someone as an immigrant if they intend to stay longer than a year, in line with a UN definition. If they intend to stay for a shorter time they are counted as a short-term immigrant or visitor. This doesn't prove there are 'extra' hidden migrants, Full Fact argues.
(credit:ASSOCIATED PRESS)
More people come to the UK from outside the EU than from inside it(03 of08)
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And that has always been the case, according to Full Fact. But the gap is closing: the number of EU migrants has soared while non-EU migrants has fallen. The most recent figures put net migration from EU countries at 184,000 a year and non-EU just above at 188,000. (credit:Full Face)
EU migration is at a record high(04 of08)
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EU-only net migration was 184,000 in 2015, equalling its record high. David Cameron had promised to bring net migration down to below 100,000. (credit:Regis Duvignau / Reuters)
But Brexit wouldn't bring us anywhere near the Government's immigration target(05 of08)
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The Government has said it wants net migration to be in the “tens of thousands” - rather than the record high of 333,000 in 2015. Some experts say Brexit would make little difference to reaching this target, given that the recent figures put net migration of non-EU citizens at 188,000. According to the Migration Observatory, an impartial research group at the University of Oxford, even if we left the European Union - assuming we kept the current economic conditions and policies - "Brexit alone would not sufficient to bring the target within reach." (credit:ASSOCIATED PRESS)
EU migrants come to work(06 of08)
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The vast majority of EU migrants in 2015 said they were coming to the UK for work - and 41% said they already had a job arranged. By contrast, most non-EU migrants (47%) say they have come to study, according to Full Fact. (credit:ASSOCIATED PRESS)
It's not clear what would replace our EU membership(07 of08)
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"Probably the greatest challenge in assessing the impacts of EU exit on migration is the fact that we do not yet know what kind of relationship would replace EU membership," writes an expert for the UK in a Changing Europe Initiative, an impartial project based at King’s College London.

"On the one hand, it is possible that the UK’s membership of the EU would be replaced by an association agreement of some kind that included free movement," the post reads. "Norway and Switzerland, for example, have both implemented free movement as part of their economic cooperation agreements with the EU. If this happened in the UK, the impacts of Brexit on UK migration could be relatively limited.

"On the other hand, EU withdrawal could mean the end of free movement and the introduction of admission requirements for EU citizens who want to live and work in the UK. These could take various forms, but the most obvious scenario is that EU citizens would face the same rules as non-EU citizens."
(credit:Adam Berry via Getty Images)
Brexit may not mean any change to immigration(08 of08)
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If the UK votes to leave the EU, a major consideration would be whether we could remain in the single market - something some economists consider essential to our prosperity. Non-partisan think tank Open Europe says that having some kind of free trade agreement with the EU would be "vital" in the event of Brexit. It argues that the example of Norway and Switzerland - which are not in the EU but have trade arrangements suggest that keeping the principle of EU free movement may be the "price" the UK has to pay to keep our free market arrangement. Switzerland trying to negotiate migrant rules while keeping its trade agreement "without much joy so far," according to the think tank. (credit:The Sun/PA Wire)